Brabham BT21

[flightlessbird]

What model is the the Les Wright Buick powered Brabham used i Australian Historic racing?

[Bryan Miller]

Les Wright's car is the ex Malcolm Eaves English hillclimb car , BT21C-17 , after Eaves the car then went to Peter Boshier-Jones , Nigel Pow, John Harper , then came to Australia circa 1981, with the 5.0 litre Repco still fitted.
The car is now back in its 1st. form.with Buick/Rover eng.

[allenbrown]

Not sure where to put this BT21 news.

I asked Fred Ashplant about his 1968 St Jovite-winning BT21 and about his FB days and got this reply.

Hi Allen,
The car that I drove mostly in 1967/ 68 was a BT 21 and was the same car both years with some updates. I was under the impression that BT 21 and BT 21A were the same car as the BT 21B appeared in 1968 and was quite a bit better than the 21 or 21A. In 1969 I drove a BT 21B owned by Ed Leppla and was a Team Tecno driver with Skip Barber driving for Gene Mason out of Philadelphia. Following that I drove some early March cars out of Joe Grimaldi's "Race Shop" when he was the March importer headquartered in Midland Park, NJ.

Allen

[Bryan Miller]

Allen.

Can we have an expansion on the March cars, new for Fred , or ex. who , may assist in due course.

Bryan.

[allenbrown]

I found an entry in the 1970 lists (Edmonton and Road America):-

John Marshall (Sandusky, Ohio) - 1 race (R6 in "BT29", BT21C thereafter) - #37 Team Suzy, Sandusky, Ohio

Allen

[allenbrown]

Team Suzy in Sandusky would be Suzy Dietrich.

Allen

[Chris Townsend]

Allen

Fred Opert may have run a BT21 at R1 Riverside.

Chris

[Andrew Fellowes]

I am battling my way through 1969 A/S and thought the following worth repeating.

Sept 25th 1969. p.5

The Sports Motors-team Brabham F3 BT28 which Tim Schenken has been campaigning this year with a great deal of success, has been sold to am unknown driver in Casablanca. In its place Tim Schenken will be at the wheel of a new works development BT28 for this weekends Cadwell Park International.
The Sports Motors BT28, the first one built –its self started life as the BT21X, when it did not have the new type bodywork. It seems next years production F3 Brabhams will be a refined version of the existing BT28.

[Chris Townsend]

Like Andrew I've been battling through 1969 in both Autosport and Motoring News and have come up with the following:

The big issue, it seems to me is the delivery delays that Brabham had with the BT28. Get this from MN 20th Feb. Salvatore Genovese will prepare the first BT28 to arrive in Italy for Claudio Francisci. Now the first Italian delivery we know of is 22 which certainly has an Italian owner in 1970, but Francisci drives a BT21B all year!

[Bryan Miller]

Chris ,

Is BT21X = BT28-1 ????
If so to Berenger ??
Does this make the car I reported in Trinidad with Andrew Cheeks in 1972 , fitted with a twin-cam , BT28-23 , or did BT28-1 change hands again quickly and this is the Berenger car gone to Trinidad.????

Bryan.

[Bryan Miller]

Interestingly , I was just looking at an advert. M.R.E. inside front cover Autosport 27/1/1972.
For Sale .

1] BT21 rolling chassis.
2] BT21 F.Ford ex. Tony Hanson , fitted with BT28 bodywork.

The problem area always will be for us, the people in the U.K. who broke cars up as spares, and the other big problem is that some cars did , 1] not do much work, and 2] were used by non famous people , and/or in club events.

Breaking up of race cars over here virtually did not happen , as the cost with import duties of a new car was substantial , so the cars kept on being updated with bigger wheels , chassis stiffening , different eng. for a new formula etc. so the cars were in most cases still extant, where over your side of the pond , when it was a few years old , there was a fair chance that it was used a source of spares.

Regards Bryan.

[Andrew Fellowes]

Thought I should give this a Bump!

I have been very busy the last month corresponding with a couple of great guys in South America. I am trying to get them to post to this thread as they have good collections of South American magazines from the 70's.

They have found a BT21 and in Uruguay a Lotus chassis that is now a Beach Buggy and a Ralt that is a coffee table! sad but at least they are not in a rubbish tip.

OK, so who is going to start the BT23's? I know zilch apart from owning BT23-1 in 1985, ex Sir Jack, Tommy Reid and still in the UK, -?

[allenbrown]

I've been working through this thread identifying BT21 Sprint Brabhams and have been amazed how many have been identified. The ones I can't identify are:

Brabham-Ford TC BT14/21 (1.5s) - Geoff Inglis 1972
Brabham-Ford BT16/21B V6 (3.0) - John Taylor 1976/77
Brabham-Ford/Vegantune TC BT21C (1.6) - Spencer Elton once in 1970
Brabham-Ford/Vegantune TC BT21 (1.6) - Spencer Elton once in 1971 and twice in 1972
Brabham-Ford/Vegantune TC BT21/30 () - Spencer Elton once in 1973
Brabham-Ford BT21A (1.6) - John (and Arthur once) Ravenscroft 1971-72
Brabham-Ford TC BT21B (1.6) - David Pullen once in 1971
Brabham-Ford TC BT21B (1.6) - Dennis Chorley once in 1976
Brabham-Ford TC BT21B (1.6) - Leslie Stone once in 1978
Brabham-Oldsmobile BT21 or BT21C Quattro (4.5 or 4.1) - Tony Bradwell 1971 and 1973
Brabham-Holbay Ford BT21 (1.1) - Robin Boucher once in 1987

I'm guessing someone knows about the Ravenscroft, Bradwell and Elton BT21s.

Thanks

Allen

[allenbrown]

A quick scan of Spencer Elton index entries in Chris Mason's book tells me that Spencer had the ex-Williamson BT21C for the 1970 season and Tom the ex-Hawley/Fenwick BT18.

[Chris Townsend]

Arthur and John Ravenscroft in 1971 had the BT21A used in 1970 by Chris Court [this is all either MN or AS] 1968 this car was run by Mickels and 'ex Tony Griffiths'. In 1967 AS gives this as 21A-9.

Elton had at one point an ex Rollinson BT21B from 1968, which was ex Howlings [MN 26.3.70 p.19] and Norman Foulds in 1969. I have this as BT21B-28 though I don't know where that's from. The other option would be the 1968 car run by Dave Berry which Rollinson ran in 1969. I don't know if Elton actually ran this car, but it went to Gerry Wilkins for h/c in 1975
The Elton 21C is ex Nick Williamson, 21C-6, and goes to Peter Varley in 1971.
In 1974 Elton is selling a BT18 'ex Peter Deal/David Wray' so F2.21.66. Deal last appears in the car 1969, so don't know if Elton has it from then. The Hawley/Fenwick car is F2.8.66.
In 1969 Elton has ANOTHER BT18! This one is ex Peter Blankstone [1967] and Peter Lawson [1968] 1970 it goes to Rod Pickering [FL] [ex Lawson and Spencer Elton MN 26.3.70 p. 11] then 1971 Geoff & Tony Lambert [FL] [w/o Ingliston MN 10.6.71 p.19]

Any help?
Chris

[Chris Townsend]

This will probably instigate a full scale survey of pre BT28 Brabhams, but...
Can anyone help with the identity of this particular BT21

1967 Lythgoe for Alan Rollinson, then used by Dave Berry after Rollinson was injured at Ingliston [nearly typed Islington, it's hairy up the Essex Road...]
Probably delivered early season

1968 Goodwin Racing for Cyd Williams

1969 Intially retained by Goodwin then sold to John Buxton

Kept by Buxton to January 1972 when he has the car for sale in Autosport, then to Bob Howlings
Buxton ran it in F.Atlantic in 1971, hence my interest.

Chris

[David McKinney]

I have an ex-Rollinson B21 (the ex-Rollinson B21?) with Spencer Elton in 1972, then Gerry Wilkins 1975.
Cue Ted Walker?

[Chris Townsend]

So many Rollinson BT21s!

I think this is a different car [Possibly BT21B-28]
1968: Lythgoe for Rollinson once he gets better
1969: Norman Foulds
1970: Bob Howlings [MN 26.3.70, p. 19] then to Spencer Elton
1975: Gerry Wilkins

Chris

[David McKinney]

at least I tried

[Steve Wilkinson]

1967 British GP Silverstone - David Berry in the Frank Lythgoe Racing BT21
1968 British GP Brands Hatch - Berry in Lythgoe BT21 when he finished 8th.

Sprint BT21 Chassis
Yeovilton 29/03/70 Spencer Elton 1.6 Brabham-Ford/Vegantune TC BT21C-6
Curborough 18/04/71 John Ravenscroft 1.6 Brabham-Ford/Vegantune BT21A-9
Curborough 18/04/71 Tony Bradwell 4.5 Brabham-Oldsmobile BT21 Quattro
Thruxton 08/08/71 David Pullen 1.6 Brabham-Ford TC BT21B
Yeovilton 25/03/73 Spencer Elton 1.6 Brabham-Ford/Vegantune TC BT21/30
Curborough 15/04/73 Ron Hartley 1.6 Brabham-Ford BT21A
Oulton Park 03/04/76 Dennis Chorley 1.6 Brabham-Ford TC BT21B
Blackbushe 20/08/78 Leslie Stone 1.6 Brabham-Ford BT21B
Ramsay Road, I-O-M 20/06/87 Robin Boucher 1.1 Brabham-Ford/Holbay BT21
Curborough 21/04/91 Tim Barrington 1.6 Brabham-Ford TC BT21C-6

November 2004 Motor Sport and Tim Barrington has the BT21C up for sale.

Any help in identifying Chassis Numbers on the above would be appreciated.

[cavvy]

Brabham mechanic Bob Ilich returned to WA with a BT21 in bits. Raced it successfully with great duels against Craig McAllister in a Macon F2 & Elfin 622 but it had an argument with the armco just in front of the old tower at Wanneroo - driven by Col Eckert (?) at the time - no idea what happened after that.

[Bryan Miller]

We have at least 6 BT21 series cars over here , but to keep Chris in suspense I will list slowly.

One will sort out one of your sprint cars , namely BT21A-9 .

Sold new to Tony Griffith August 1967 , and quoting letter from Mr. Griffiths to the then owner Max Lane of Ausrtralia , dated 6th. March 1984.
Used mainly for hillclimbs , but from time to time used in races at Silverstone. Eng. was Ford Vegantune Twin -cam, 1588cc. British Racing Green [ specifically Winkleman green ] with a white nose band.
The car was sold in June 1969 to Tom Elton who owned a B.L. dealership in Westbury Wilshire.

We also have a letter dated 6-6-1984 from George Thornton at Brabhams advising car sold to Mr. Griffiths on 5-8-1967 , with eng. no. C13670609 and gearbox no. H5/163.

In the period 1969 - 1974 the following owners , John Brown, John Ravenscroft and then Rodger Hartley .

We then have a letter from Geoffrey Jackson advising he purchased car from Roger Hartley on 7th April 1974 complete with eng and gearbox, he sold car as a rolling chassis to Peter Bloore , date not specified.
He also advised another name connected with car prior , that being Chris Court. Jacksons letter dated 2nd August 1985.
Peter Bloore appears to have owned car 1981-2 thence Chris Crawford 1982-4 , then purchased by Max Lane from Australia , the restoration was primarily done in the U.K. before the car came over here , Max Lane owned the car untill 1991 , when it was sold to Junee resident Mike Broso , who used the car continuosly untill sold to Canberra resident Ron Coath who retains.

Bryan.

[Chris Townsend]

Bryan & Steve

Chris Court ran this BT21A in 1970, according to my notes from MN

Chris

[Bryan Miller]

Cavvy,

Yes the Bob Illich car has always been known as a BT21B.
Bob worked at Repco engines and also at Byfleet, and during 1968 built up the car and returned to Australia with the car, it was at that time fitted with a very rare Cosworth S.C.B. a 1500cc version of an S.C.A .

No chassis plate known to have been fitted , but always known by it's AM number 283.

Through various hands as you describe and at this time and since circa 1984 with Bill McCrorie , who obtained the originall Cosworth SCB and refitted it to the car.

Bryan.

[cavvy]

Thanks Bryan,
I knew the powerplant was different but the years.....

I threaten to get to a historic meet in WA in 05.