Smaller turbo engines and bigger wheels planned for WTCC

[JMeissner]

TouringCarTimes has received new information about the coming changes of the World Touring Car Championship S2000 rules. It seems first and foremost that the new rules will not be far from the current rules, mainly an update. The current S2000 cars are going to be able to compete along side the new S2000 cars. The biggest news lie on the engine-side.

From 2010 turbo charged two liter petrol engines will be allowed. They will be adjusted to be equal to the current naturally aspirated two liter petrol engines and the, debated, two liter turbo charged diesel engines.

http://www.touringcartimes.com/news.php?id=2626

Thoughts?

[Bramzel]

Good news Smaller turbo-charged engines are proving to be the future, so touringcar racing should follow that. Bigger wheels are very welcome, they would definitely enhance the race-feel of the cars. Maybe they could lower the rideheight a bit as well, and then they might vaguely resemble Supertouring cars a bit again

[FIRE]

Interesting. I think it's a good move because manufacturers use more and more turbo engines in their road cars, but 2L NA against 2L turbo? Will that not be a walk over for the turbo engines?

Currently S2000 rally uses also 2L NA engines. Is there much difference between a S2000 rally and circuit engine?

Did Super Touring use 18 inch?

Maybe this topic merging with http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=108903 and create a '2010 Super2000 technical rules' topic?

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by Bramzel

Good news Smaller turbo-charged engines are proving to be the future, so touringcar racing should follow that. Bigger wheels are very welcome, they would definitely enhance the race-feel of the cars. Maybe they could lower the rideheight a bit as well, and then they might vaguely resemble Supertouring cars a bit again

[ScotsBrutesFan]

Surely 1.6 turbos should be the next step rather than 2 litre turbos.

I don't quite see the point of strapping a turbo onto the current engine if it's still to have the same power output.

[stedevil]

Yeah, does seem a bit funky to start off with 2L Turbo Petrol engines and only switch to 16-1800cc a few years later. I would go directly for the smaller engine size. With 2L the only advantage would be to end the debate of the TDIs getting an advantage at high altitude.

[PorscheFanNo1]

Originally Posted by FIRE

Did Super Touring use 18 inch?

The Class2 cars used 18" most of the time (I belive both 18 and 19 was allowed?), but when the ST rules came in 95 they all switched to 19".

[Valenok]

2l turbo against 2l NA? As for me it's a nonsens - turbokompressor must give more power, and if it isn't so, why teams must use it?
It resemble me SEAT Leon Supercopa

[mickeyc]

Originally Posted by PorscheFanNo1

The Class2 cars used 18" most of the time (I belive both 18 and 19 was allowed?), but when the ST rules came in 95 they all switched to 19".

19" came in with the splitters and wings in 1995.

[johntt]

Originally Posted by ScotsBrutesFan

Surely 1.6 turbos should be the next step rather than 2 litre turbos.

I don't quite see the point of strapping a turbo onto the current engine if it's still to have the same power output.

Agree. 1.6l Turbos are becoming the replacement for 2.0l NA. Allow the current engines and 1.6l turbos in addition.

In addition drop the silly equalisation and success ballast.

[FIRE]

Organisers to ditch weight-breaks
WTCCWorld Touring Car Championship organisers are considering plans to abolish the controversial 'weight-break' system for next season in favour of a more open and standardised parity process, this week's Autosport reports.

Currently, the championship issues discretionary weight waivers to individual manufacturers in an attempt to keep the field on an even keel, however the system has been criticised for being both opaque and unpredictable.

...

Under the new proposal, the handicap system would be written into the sporting regulations rather than left to the discretion of the World Touring Car Bureau, meaning that teams could anticipate both when a waiver would be issued, and how much it would be.

Adjustments would be based on the performance of the fastest two cars from each manufacturer, measured over three races. At the end of each three-race phase, predetermined waivers would be authorised where required.

FIA Touring Car Commission President Jonathan Ashman said: "Effectively, you are taking 18 calculations into account to work out the average. The Bureau will only be involved during the homologation process. Once the car is homologated, the Bureau is then out of it."

The new process is expected to be approved later this year.

Full article: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/70264

[werner]

Would that also mean the end of weightpenalty's for individual results?

[FIRE]

You mean succes ballast? I think not. This is about the performance breaks.

[stedevil]

Sounds like a move in the right direction.

[Bramzel]

Yeh, agreed. Though it has to be watertight so teams don't abuse it to get waivers at planned moments, for example tracks that don't suit them.

[gttouring]

sounds good but 2lturbo? how won't these potentiall 500HP cars not going to crush all 2LNA cars, petrol or diesel.
1.6 or 1.8 is enough a turbo can create massive torque and power how are NA car expected to compete especially if they are the same size displacement?
19inch wheel or 18 is great BTCC super touring again! with turbo power it'll sound great look all the part of a real touring car not a showroom stock prepared racer...
but hopefully they wil not sprout wings and flips like DTM or something hideous.

[duke_toaster]

The cars will be 2LTurbo but restricted so that they produce the current power, then the engines will be downsized to (presumably) 1600 Turbo.

[gttouring]

what?!
is this to get exactly who and what parties interested in turbo?hmmm
the sound alone might be worth it

[Martin Haven]

Originally Posted by gttouring

what?!
is this to get exactly who and what parties interested in turbo?hmmm
the sound alone might be worth it

the sound??

since when did turbo engines with restricted power sound better than howling normally-aspirated ones??

preserve us from turbos...

and anyway, just how many manufacturers have 2-litre turbo 4-door family saloons??

GM... no
BMW... no
SEAT... No

turbos = end of Championship! under the 'we don't make those' rule used by manufacturers

[Martin Haven]

and for the FIA to introduce turbos for 2010 because they can't balance turbo-diesels and n/a petrol engines properly is not only the most pathetic admission of ineptitude, it also devalues the 2008 and 2009 Championships, as they admit they can't ensure a level playing field...

If that is the case, then they need to change the rules for 2009...

[Aslak Vind]

Seat actually has a 2 liter car with turbo, but to call a Supercopa family is a stretch of concept. And it certainly havent got 4 doors nor is it a saloon.

I think that the new FIA WTCC turboconcept is proof, that FIA is lost on their own regs. They are unable to regulate the petrol/diesel powerbalance, and instead of controlling cost, they once again pressure the manufacturers to develop new engines once more.

And certainly it will force yet more manufacturers out of the championship, and it wil not help the privateers either.

They are lost, plain and simple..

[PorscheFanNo1]

Originally Posted by Aslak Vind

They are lost, plain and simple..

Same old, same old then basicly.

[Speed-King]

I think you guys might be jumping to your conclusions a little early. Of course, equalizing turbos and N/As is a problem, as there have rarely been series where both concepts competed equally, but beyond that I think that turbo-charged engines will be the predominant engines in the next decade in roadcars. So if WTCC wants to stay true to their "real cars- real racing"-moniker, going turbo is not the worst idea.

[stedevil]

Originally Posted by Martin Haven

the sound??
and anyway, just how many manufacturers have 2-litre turbo 4-door family saloons??

GM... no

Ehhhh... GM definitly has 2L Turbos 4 door saloons. Their entire present ecotech line is mainly turbo engines. Eg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saab_9-...008-present.29 In fact what are getting scarce over at GM is 2L N/A engines...

Also, SEAT belongs to VAG, and VAG definitely has 2L Turbo engines...

[broadrun96]

Not getting to be a WTCC fan, have to settle for whatever races SPEED decides to re-air in the winter, I cant offer too much of an informed opinion. But if even the cars here in the US are starting to go turbo/super, it's just a matter of time before all of the touring car type vehicles are small displacement turbos. Why not embrace the trend, bring all the engines to the FIA or whoever before the season to get something close to baseline to see what the team have? I know they will sandbag some hoping to get more allowances but having some ex race engineers in the testing could help with that.
Will agree though, even with some baseline for comparison, it will be hard if teams want turbos and some stay NA to keep them balanced.