BMW 635 CSi Group A

**chunterer** · 19 Jun 2006, 18:22 (Ref:1694486)

For most touring car fans this particular model is arguably the most car most synonymous with Group A touring car racing.

Our historians will be able to tell us how many races/titles the car won around the world ( a lot!) but its style, grace, performance and sound certainly made it one of the most popular cars of its 'genre' in the mid 80's.

Over to you....

cavvy · 20 Jun 2006, 08:40 (Ref:1694488)

I understand a Jeremy Walton book claims there were 50 x GrA factory cars. My attempts to get this book have failed - can anyone shed some light on this?
Web site?

The Bob Jane car (my description) was 2nd at Spa, and at Bathurst & 2nd at Fuji - one other outing I know of was driven by Gerhard Berger at the 1st Adelaide F1 GP meet where it ended up in a gravel trap after ex - Bob Jane team driver John Harvey (in a Holden) punted him off the track.

The car remains to this day as it was raced.

PS Harveys explanation of punt/incident was 'who do you think you are, a F1 driver' ......nudge !!*#?

**John Turner** · 20 Jun 2006, 08:50 (Ref:1694490)

cavvy, I have the book; what do you particularly wish to know? (I'm away for a couple days but will have a look upon my return).

It will come as no surprise that these cars are one of my favourites of that period. Lucky for the other manufacturers that as the 6 series was getting a bit long on the tooth, BMW decided not to homologate the 'M' version!

ian beckett · 20 Jun 2006, 10:42 (Ref:1694495)

Hi! I would agree with everything being said to the extent that I tried to keep tabs on the history and race records of every car that raced.Some had as many as six different owners and became very difficult to trace.They raced in all the worlds major touring car series although they did not win many championships because of the class structures at the time plus they had some pretty strong opposition. I wonder if anyone out there has pictures of some of the rarer cars which maybe did not feature too well in races and therefore never made the 'comics'.I would be willing to help if anyone has a query about a particular car or race. Ian Beckett.

David Towe · 20 Jun 2006, 12:48 (Ref:1694501)

I had the very great pleasure of owning the ex JPS Team 635 that won the Australian Touring Car Champiopnship for a while and loved it. The wife unfortunately hated it and in order to keep her off my back and keep the JPS Team M3, I sold the 635.
We only took it to a couple of meetings but the crowd was always drawn to it. Fathers could be heard saying to their children, "I remember when....." or "I saw this thing win at...... when I was your age".
Jim Richards won every race in all 6 rounds of the Amscar series in 1985 in the car, such was it's dominance here. Jim actually rang me recently trying to buy the car back, too late. The car has now gone to a new home where the owner has the money to fully restore it, sadly something I couldn't afford to do.
A true classic in every sense of the word, I feel privelidged to have raced it.

cavvy · 21 Jun 2006, 00:20 (Ref:1694512)

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Turner

cavvy, I have the book; what do you particularly wish to know? (I'm away for a couple days but will have a look upon my return).

It will come as no surprise that these cars are one of my favourites of that period. Lucky for the other manufacturers that as the 6 series was getting a bit long on the tooth, BMW decided not to homologate the 'M' version!

Thanks John.

Were there 50 cars built by the factory or Schnitzer - are they numbered - what is the numbering?
Were GrA 635s built by others in Europe or did they come from
the 'original 50'?

KA · 28 Jun 2007, 06:36 (Ref:1964836)

OK, I've had a look at the list I'd put together. There's a heck of a lot of information in this thread, including a lot of history for individual cars, but some of it without chassis numbers, and in some cases slightly contradictory information, so this is a long way from being a definitive list of what we've covered. I'll start with just the cars we've got chassis numbers for, and feel free to add to/correct/shoot down in flames my version of the list....

AAA01
works prototype- loaned to BS Automotive for early 1983 Trimoco rounds until RA1/001 completed

RA001 (the chassis number has also been listed in the thread as RA2/01....)
Eggenberger 1983 ETCC (Kelleners/Grano)
CC Motorsport (BMW GB)- 1984 BTCC (spare car)
Frank Sytner 1985- sold on to Graeme Crosby in NZ- (maybe went to Jumet Motors in Belgium first?)
Graham Lorimer 1986/7- rebuilt using parts from the ex-Kent Baigent RA2/035
Now under restoration in NZ

RA1/001
BS Automotive (Cheylesmore BMW). 1983 BTCC (Stuck)
crashed and written off- reshelled as RA1/029

KA · 28 Jun 2007, 06:38 (Ref:1964837)

RA1/007
Schnitzer (Original BMW Teile) 1983
now in BMW Museum

RA1/013
Schnitzer (Eterna)
subsequent owners Serge Power and Michel de Deyne in Belgium

RA1/017
Ted Grace 1983 BTCC for Frank Sytner
sold to John Morton in NZ?

KA · 28 Jun 2007, 06:39 (Ref:1964838)

RA1/022
BMW France
sold to Frank Sytner
sold to Johnstone BMW in NZ
now owned by Dougal McGibbon (NZ)

RA1/029
BS Automotive (Cheylesmore) replacement chassis for RA1/001
1983 BTCC- Stuck
1984 BTCC (Grundig)- David Kennedy
1985- sold to Brian Chatfield, used in a few BTCC rounds
1986- Manns Racing- (Barry Barnes) at Donington ETCC round- DNS?
1986- Barry Robinson- appeared at Silverstone TT
1988- Peter Buxtorf
subsequent owners, Nigel Smith, Kevin Underwood, Peter Speis.
Now with Alex Elliott?

RA2/034
Schnitzer (Original Teile) 1984 ETCC (Quester/Stuck)
1985 sold to Simon Emmerling in Australia
Still with Emmerling, rebuilt into Sports Sedan with Holden or Chevy V8. Crashed 2006

More to follow later today....

blinkybm · 29 Jun 2007, 13:04 (Ref:1964841)

Checking some of my information, Florent Moulin has Chassis RA2-51 and in his words "It has a nice race history including 3 entries at SPA 24 hours. Was driven by very famous pilotes like Ballot-Lena/Metge/Andruet/Haisnault "

He also knows of Chassis RA1-005 which was for sale last year.
"The body is from 83 the first serial as the Motorsport type is E24 RA1 and an early number in this serial as if I remember correctly it's #005, my car for instance has body from 84 and is E24 RA2 #051. I think the car was used in 83 in ETCC as Group A and then converted to "French Production" spec. It was really little used as it raced only in 84 and then stored. The regulations were slightly different from the GRA ones as it had a carburators 360 HP engine, plastic windows and front bumper, lightweight interior and no center locking wheels."

I hope some of this helps.

KA · 29 Jun 2007, 17:39 (Ref:1964842)

Quote:

Originally Posted by blinkybm

Checking some of my information, Florent Moulin has Chassis RA2-51 and in his words "It has a nice race history including 3 entries at SPA 24 hours. Was driven by very famous pilotes like Ballot-Lena/Metge/Andruet/Haisnault "

He also knows of Chassis RA1-005 which was for sale last year.
"The body is from 83 the first serial as the Motorsport type is E24 RA1 and an early number in this serial as if I remember correctly it's #005, my car for instance has body from 84 and is E24 RA2 #051. I think the car was used in 83 in ETCC as Group A and then converted to "French Production" spec. It was really little used as it raced only in 84 and then stored. The regulations were slightly different from the GRA ones as it had a carburators 360 HP engine, plastic windows and front bumper, lightweight interior and no center locking wheels."

I hope some of this helps.

Brilliant! I knew about the Florent Moulin car, and posted a link to the details on his website a couple of pages back. I'd speculated that it could be RA2-51 based on seeing that chassis number listed to pics of the car on another site, but it's really useful to have confirmation from Florent that it is indeed RA2-51

The information on RA1-005 is really useful- don't think that one has been mentioned at all so far. I've seen pics of a couple of French Supertourisme 635s on another forum, but nothing with any history

Thanks for this- I'll add them to the list

KA · 29 Jun 2007, 17:43 (Ref:1964843)

Update- added RA1/005 to the list

Quote:

Originally Posted by KA

AAA01
works prototype- loaned to BS Automotive for early 1983 Trimoco rounds until RA1/001 completed

RA001 (the chassis number has also been listed in the thread as RA2/01....)
Eggenberger 1983 ETCC (Kelleners/Grano)
CC Motorsport (BMW GB)- 1984 BTCC (spare car)
Frank Sytner 1985- sold on to Graeme Crosby in NZ- (maybe went to Jumet Motors in Belgium first?)
Graham Lorimer 1986/7- rebuilt using parts from the ex-Kent Baigent RA2/035
Now under restoration in NZ

RA1/001
BS Automotive (Cheylesmore BMW). 1983 BTCC (Stuck)
crashed and written off- reshelled as RA1/029

RA1/005
original owner unknown- raced in 1983 ETCC
raced in French Supertourisme 1984, then stored
Sold 2006?

KA · 29 Jun 2007, 18:46 (Ref:1964844)

Next instalment.....

RA2/035
Schnitzer (Original Teile) 1984 ETCC Ravaglia/Berger
1985 sold to Keneal Promotions (Kent Baigent) in NZ- raced ATCC, Bathust, Macau
crashed and written off at Manfield late 85

I'll do the next two together, as they still pose a bit of a mystery...

RA2/037 & RA2/039: the 1984 CC Motorsport/BMW GB BTCC cars
Given CC Motorsport chassis numbers CC29 (Weaver) and CC30 (Woodman)
Which 'RA2' chassis number corresponds to which 'CC' chassis number?
CC30 crashed at Donington and reshelled- becomes 'CC31'
1985- both (and spare car RA001) sold to Frank Sytner
CC29 sold on to Mike Newman- raced in BTCC 1985-7, believe he still has it?
CC31 raced by Sytner 1985 BTCC, then sold to Charlie O'Brien/Erle McRae Motorsport after TT- raced at Sandown & Bathurst

More shortly....

blinkybm · 30 Jun 2007, 11:17 (Ref:1964852)

I have been looking through more of my "635 files" and came up with this car. Unfortunately no chassis number, and you gents may well know of it.
Was for sale in January this year by a German outfit called GS Motorsport. They sent me the following:

"BMW 635 CSI Original 1982 Car built by BMW, Works Car, Ex Brun.
1984 and 1985 win this car the 24h Nürburgring
1984 Felder / Bröhling / Peter Oberndorfer BMW 635 CSi
1985 Felder / Hammelmann / Walterscheid-Müller BMW 635 CSi "

I'll keep looking for other cars...
Cheers!

KA · 30 Jun 2007, 11:35 (Ref:1964853)

Quote:

Originally Posted by blinkybm

I have been looking through more of my "635 files" and came up with this car. Unfortunately no chassis number, and you gents may well know of it.
Was for sale in January this year by a German outfit called GS Motorsport. They sent me the following:

"BMW 635 CSI Original 1982 Car built by BMW, Works Car, Ex Brun.
1984 and 1985 win this car the 24h Nürburgring
1984 Felder / Bröhling / Peter Oberndorfer BMW 635 CSi
1985 Felder / Hammelmann / Walterscheid-Müller BMW 635 CSi "

I'll keep looking for other cars...
Cheers!

Yes, I've got that one. The description you got from GS might help identify it though, as it gives a little more detail than I noted down from the advert I saw- Ian posted some info on ex-Walter Brun cars a while back, but I couldn't originally match this one up with Ian's info at the first try. There were a couple of Group A 635s on the market in Germany in the last year or so, both listed on the same website a few months back, the one you mentioned and a black car with DTM history- sadly neither had chassis numbers listed...

I've found another one as well- (don't think I've posted this link before?)- in a collection of pics of the Nurburgring Museum, (bottom of the page). From the list of drivers' names on the front wing, looks like it's one of the cars campaigned by Seikel Motorsport in the ETCC- think they also ran a Mustang and 1600cc class Audi 80's, as well as at least one 635...
http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~ga...seum/index.htm

ian beckett · 30 Jun 2007, 14:26 (Ref:1964854)

Yes,this car at the Nurburgring museum is the ex-Seikel Motorsport car first raced by them in '85 at the Monza ETCC.The car is ex- Garage du Bac who had raced it in the French championship in'84for Fabien Giroix and at the '84 Spa 24 hours#9.When Seikel first ran it the car still had a Garage du Bac sunstrip on the windscreen and the colours were as the French team had used minus their sponsors lettering(mainly Motul).The drivers names who ran for Seikel are all recorded on the car at the Nurburgring museum.I do not know of a chassis number for the car but think it was originally built by Eggenberger.Garage du Bac also had a car built to the French regulations which Jean-Pierre Malcher had raced in '83 in very similar colours.

KA · 1 Jul 2007, 16:42 (Ref:1964856)

Next instalment of the chassis list- think we're up to RA2/40something...

RA2/44
1984 JPS Team BMW- Bathurst (Hulme/von Bayern)
1985 JPS Team BMW- Jim Richards ATCC Championship winner
1986 Garry Rogers- raced in both JPS and Bob Jane colours
July 87-Jan 90: Joe Sommariva.
Jan 90- sold to Jim Richards
Nov 1993- sold to John Hebron
Feb 2005- sold to David Towe
2006- sold to Adrian Brady (thanks to Adrian for the PM giving the dates for the changes of ownership!)

RA2/46
1984- Ted Grace/Malcolm Gartlan. Group N car for Barrie Williams
1985- sold to John Morton in NZ by Frank Sytner
1985-97- used as road car for part of this period
Rebuilt to Group A spec- currently with Gerry Hodges and for sale 2007

RA2/050
Schnitzer customer car for Manuel Fernandes.
1985-8 Manuel Fernandes:
1985(Brut 33 sponsorship)- Portuguese Champion
1986/7 (Traffic Clothing sponsorship)
1988 (Mustang Clothing sponsorship)

KA · 1 Jul 2007, 16:56 (Ref:1964857)

and another 3...

RA2/51
1984 Bavaria Automobiles, France
ETCC 1984-6, including 3 appearances at Spa 24 hours
Now with Florent Moulin, France
http://www.florentmoulin.com

RA2/54
1984 Carlos Rodrigues, Portugal
1985 Robert Giannone, Portugal. Damaged by fire at Estoril ETC round 1985. Possibly written off, although might have been rebuilt and raced by Giannone until 87

RA2/55
1985 Schnitzer ETCC (BMW M-Technic) 2nd place Spa 24 hours
Goold Motorsport (Australia) for Bathurst 1985
1986 Goold Motorsport/Bob Jane- raced at Sandown, Bathurst & Fuji
1986- Bob Jane Corporation. Still owned in 2007?

KA · 1 Jul 2007, 17:01 (Ref:1964858)

RA2/58
1984 Schnitzer (Wurth) Ravaglia/Berger
sold to Balcanca, Bulgaria

RA2/60
1985 Schnitzer (Original BMW Teile) Spa 24 hours winner
1986 Schnitzer?
possibly sold to Finland
2006- under restoration by Alex Elliott

RA2/62
1985- red car, listed as supplied to BMW GB....

KA · 1 Jul 2007, 17:04 (Ref:1964859)

RA2/66
JPS Team BMW display car (roadgoing)
for sale 2007?

RA2/74
1985- Yoshimi Enterprises, Japan

RA2/75
1985 Schnitzer (BMW M-Technik)
1986 Garage du Bac, France
subsequent owners in Spain
now with Ten-tenths member 'vap' 2007

RA2/77
RA2/78
RA2/79
1986 Schnitzer

KA · 1 Jul 2007, 17:12 (Ref:1964860)

I think that's everything we've been able to tie up to a chassis number. There are also a few cars for which we've got part-histories, but no chassis number. I've got a couple of these I can post now, and I'll go back through the thread to see if there are any more....

Chassis no. unknown
1984 Garage du Bac, France. French Championship & Spa (Fabien Giroix)
1985 Seikel Motorsport, Germany. raced in ETCC 1985-7
Now in Nurburgring Museum

Chassis number unknown (Ian mentioned a chassis number of AF16849)
1984 Brun Motorsport
1985 sold to Rolf Goring
1986/7 Axel Felder

Gerard Hodges · 1 Jul 2007, 22:12 (Ref:1964863)

Hi KA fantastic job with the chasis no,s. Some more info, chassis no E24 RA1-01 owners names Gavin and Myles Hicks, NZ, the car in the Nurburgring museum is #E24 RA2-38 ex Eggenburger. I looked at it when i was there last year. # E24 RA2-66 is owned by Hugh Tunley NZ. My car #E24 RA2-46 has been restored in grp N spec not A, and is still for sale, Iwould still love any pictures/ photos/ info on my car, when it ran in the UK.
Gerry Hodges.

ian beckett · 2 Jul 2007, 15:27 (Ref:1964867)

Here are my last few entries where I have actual chassis numbers which have not been added yet.1)Mullerbrau team from Germany had BMW Motorsport '83 built car....RA 27/ 2) Schnitzer #7 now in Munich BMW museum. 3) Schnitzer #13 ex Eterna sold to Serge Power in Belgium and then to Michel de DEyne. 4)Schnitzer #31 ex Meisterfoto/Bellof sold to Gubin Motorsport for Volker Strycek (German champ in it in '84). 5)Ralf Goring had ex Brun(AF 16849)in ETCC and hillclimbs. As a final observation the silver Group N car was in fact Albert Mirkos prepared by Colin Davids. Ian.

KA · 2 Jul 2007, 18:43 (Ref:1964868)

Updated information

Quote:

Originally Posted by KA

AAA01
works prototype- loaned to BS Automotive for early 1983 Trimoco rounds until RA1/001 completed

RA001 (the chassis number has also been listed in the thread as RA2/01....)
Eggenberger 1983 ETCC (Kelleners/Grano)
CC Motorsport (BMW GB)- 1984 BTCC (spare car)
Frank Sytner 1985- sold on to Graeme Crosby in NZ- (maybe went to Jumet Motors in Belgium first?)
Graham Lorimer 1986/7- rebuilt using parts from the ex-Kent Baigent RA2/035
Now with Gavin & Myles Hicks in NZ- under restoration

RA1/001
BS Automotive (Cheylesmore BMW). 1983 BTCC (Stuck)
crashed and written off- reshelled as RA1/029

KA · 2 Jul 2007, 18:48 (Ref:1964869)

Update- added RA1/25, RA1/27

Quote:

Originally Posted by KA

RA1/022
BMW France
sold to Frank Sytner
sold to Johnstone BMW in NZ
now owned by Dougal McGibbon (NZ)

RA1/25
Brun Motorsport? (Jagermeister) Stuck- 1984 DTM Champion
now in Museum of Science & Industry, Stuttgart

RA1/27
Mullerbrau Team, Germany

RA1/029
BS Automotive (Cheylesmore) replacement chassis for RA1/001
1983 BTCC- Stuck
1984 BTCC (Grundig)- David Kennedy
1985- sold to Brian Chatfield, used in a few BTCC rounds
1986- Manns Racing- (Barry Barnes) at Donington ETCC round- DNS?
1986- Barry Robinson- appeared at Silverstone TT
1988- Peter Buxtorf
subsequent owners, Nigel Smith, Kevin Underwood, Peter Speis.
Now with Alex Elliott?

RA2/034
Schnitzer (Original Teile) 1984 ETCC (Quester/Stuck)
1985 sold to Simon Emmerling in Australia
Still with Emmerling, rebuilt into Sports Sedan with Holden or Chevy V8. Crashed 2006

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