Lmp2

[gttouring]

i know what the point is, but these cars can barely keep up with GT2
for the love of pete-

are the engines too small for the class or are the cars to fragile.
the way they raced at LeMans was OK but the way they finished is laughable.
why haven't the ACO gotten these right this is always the problem with these things,
the Dyson Lola was one of the few winners overall in races and these were alwyas sprints for the most part-especially compared to LeMans.
i would love to see a LM2 at least finish ahead of GT cars
do the rules really encourage gentleman racers to go to prototypes? it seems only real racers can race, test , and make them more viable, and that means time and money to develop that some or many gentelman simply won't or can't contribute, ifeel the formula here is simply wrong for what it is proposed to be

[Silk Cut Jaguar]

You've hit the nail on the head, a well developed and financed LMP2 should be able to finish(!) consistently ahead of the GT1 cars. Maybe as the Porsche cars slowly appear the current state of P2 will improve and we'll have cars winning on merit rather than the amount of duct tape holding it together.

[SL]

Your right, the LMP2 runners were not up to the task, many spent hours in the pits, the winning MG car was right at the back at the start.

Also the first few laps when the Aston overtook the Courage and the Courage could not get back on speed or under braking was all wrong.

Maybe the ACO should send the LMP2 teams to the LMGT1 teams to buy a GT instead

Simon

[gwyllion]

I think the Porsche LMP2 will crush the other LMP2 cars.

[tblincoe]

i too am beginning to lose faith in LMP2... hopefully Porsche can show the other teams/manufacturers how to make a LMP2 run like it is supposed to. i hope that Judd, AER, Lola, and Courage can find a way to make these cars last, but i really doubt it

[batmobile]

I don't think that the cars are bad, but often the problems come frome the engines .

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by batmobile

I don't think that the cars are bad, but often the problems come frome the engines .

Yes, what's the weak spot of these cars? Is it the engine, gearbox, suspension area or .....?

Maybe it's a good solution to make them slower (with a less stressed engine), so they become slower as GT1 (in order of speed: LMP1, GT1, LMP2, GT2).

[SL]

Umm... They are already slower than a GT1 !!!!!!

problems are with all the bits of the car that can break.

[brielga]

I saw them last year at LM, winner was drinking champagne already at 2PM since the only other one running was a WR about 2 light years behind...pathetic!
Then at Spa LMES (only 6 hours race) another very mediocre scenario despite the high number of participants...and now at LM this year!!! This class needs some heavy reviewing, even the best teams (RML, Miracle, Chamberlain) have an amazing fragility. The least quick and least attractive of all 4 categories, it will be a walk in the park for Porsche.

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by FIRE

Yes, what's the weak spot of these cars? Is it the engine, gearbox, suspension area or .....?

Just look at the retirement list:
* Courage n°33: Rupture suspension AVG
* Lola n°39: Fuite d'huile et début d'incendie
* Pilbeam n°20: Embrayage
* WR n°23: Immobilisée en piste (impossible de redémarrer)
* Courage n°34: Mise hors-course. Marche arrière sur la piste…
* Lola n°32: Soupapes tordues
* Courage n°31: Problème mécanique
* Courage n°35: Transmission cassée
taken from lemans.org

So engine and gearbox are not up for the job.

Remember Lucchini withdraw before the race because they could not fix their gearbox problems.

[Thumper]

I agree with much of what's been said above - the LMP2 cars certainly give the impression of being too fragile, but they're certainly not slow. Setting aside the Astons for a moment (and which category should they really be racing in? Not GT1, that's for sure!) nearly all the LMP2 cars were comfortably quicker than every car in GT2 and 80% of those in GT1. I'm ignoring the WRs, since they shouldn't be racing anywhere, let alone Le Mans.

Having said that, I'm not sure I'm too fussed by the thought that the top category in GT should be able to mix it with the second category in LMP - why not? It offers a logical progression for teams and drivers wanting to move forward in sportscar racing, like stepping sideways onto a higher ladder.

With the exception of the RML MG, all the faster LMP2 cars employed the twin-turbo four-cylinder AER unit - an engine which had never previously lasted more than 20 hours (RML in 2004). While there's no doubt that AER has done remarkable things with that unit in the last 12 months - witness two cars actually finishing the race - it is clearly better suited to sprint races, not overnight enduros. That was the thinking behind RML's decision to develop the EX264 with the Judd V8. It doesn't necessarily give the outright qualifying pace of the AER, but it is robust, reliable, and proven.

In the end RML's problems were nothing to do with the engine, the gearbox, or the speed they were travelling - typically around the 3:50-3:55 mark. Nearly every problem was electrical, and could have happened to any car in the field, LMP1 or GT2 included. It's easy to say this with hindsight, of course, but without that one electrical gremlin (in as much as it couldn't be traced, and kept recurring) they'd almost certainly have finished in the top ten overall.

So don't right off LMP2 just yet. Porsche wouldn't be considering such a venture if they didn't think it worthwhile, and their involvement could revolutionise the class.

[SL]

I think the point I am going on about is that the GT's are sort of limited to a 3.55 lap, had that not been there many more could have been faster. the ferrari's were ballasted as well.

I think the Aco should scrap the LMP2 and get the GT1's mixing it with the LMP1's. the GT's had 3 factory teams, Aston, Chevy and Ferrari, it would take little for Porsche to add to it, maybe a few others as well

S

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by SL

I think the Aco should scrap the LMP2 and get the GT1's mixing it with the LMP1's. the GT's had 3 factory teams, Aston, Chevy and Ferrari, it would take little for Porsche to add to it, maybe a few others as well

Ferrari is not a factory team; the 575 had an engine failure after 8 hours and the 550 is a Prodrive product (it only has a Ferrari logo on the car). And Aston Martin will stop being a factory effort once the development of the car is more of less completed.

And where will the GT1 cars find another 15 to 20 seconds? Pescarolo did 3:35 during the race and Aston Martin 3:52. That is still a huge difference.

The overall victory should be decided between prototypes: Audi, Peugeot, hopefully Porsche and perhaps others. The whole Maserati ACO conflict shows this is the opinion of ACO as well.

[Svierge]

Porsche won't do GT1 because the cost is astronomical. Porsche wants its customers to move up a class, so the best solution is to help them into a cost-efficient prototype - a real racing car.

[marcush.]

LMP2 could be a cool class imo but it occurs to me that both the lola and the courage
are not quite ready yet.
interestingly the lola is anything but cheap and one is a bit shocked to see hat even RML seems to struggle with reliability .

[brielga]

What frustrates me the most is: they are quick, there is a very healthy list of entries, competition is high...but it lasts only until the night falls. This is ENDURANCE and cars should be built to that purpose. Lola and Courage have been there for years but I think the engines/gearboxes are the issue.

One final paragraph for that joke called WR. At least this year they did not make it to the top 2 thanks to attrition, I hope next year they dedicate those yellow machines to their original purpose producing lemon juice and not run around Le Mans preventing other better teams to take part in the race of races. There's enough other French teams that can do a better job!!!!!

[siziemm]

LMP2s
I can't understand those who have commented on the fact that LMP2s are barely faster than GT2s, they have obviously not looked at the Le Mans qualifying times. Actually, they stack up exactly where they should do in the order of things in terms of overall speed - behind LMP1 and ahead of GT1.

Having been in the pits with one of the LMP2 teams all Le Mans weekend, I know that the cars engine mapping was set for maximum performance during qualifying and for a much slower pace during the race, in the name of reliability. The problem seems to be that they are fast but fragile - something of which the teams are well aware. They look, therefore, to every area at Le Mans to gain an endurance advantage for the race rather than a speed one.

One team manager I spoke to, thought that a good LMP2 car should be aiming for a top six Le Mans finish - or even higher. I think it will be interesting to see how the Porsche fares - I suspect it will probably force all of the other constructors to raise their games and next year I would imagine that that LMP2s will probably, as a "species" fare much better.