MK2's Rule....

[backmarker]

Hi guys,just watched the Escort MK2 challenge from Ireland on men and motors and was very impressed with the LIFT the mk2's seem to have these days,what sort of spec engines are the front runners running now.I was thinking that if they are putting out 280hp'ish,do you think in the right conditions i.e dry they could give a wrc car a fright, because only a few years ago all the wrc brigade were moaning about some of the F2 cars (306maxi,Renault megane) giving them a tanking on the warm tarmac events ? Gordon

[alfasud]

I'm lead to believe that 250bhp is reasonably common for a good BDA (BDF,BDG...) and at least one reference talks about 275bhp:

http://www.race-cars.com/utility/coswrthr.htm

So maybe 280bhp is possible - those that really know, probably aren't saying.

What rules and weight would those Escorts be running - if it's Group B rules, I guess they would be allowed to run down around 860-920kg (?) if you could get them that light.

So 280bhp/920kg is about 0.30.

For a WRC car, I think they all make more than 300bhp these days, so we can probably use 350bhp/1230kg = 0.28 (about 0.26-0.27 if you use 320-330bhp) - so the Escort might have a small advantage.

Now we'd need a tarmac stage with good traction, so the WRC cars electrically controlled diffs and 4WD traction can't give an advantage and a smooth surface... more of a circuit, or track like conditions, so the primative Mk II Escort suspension isn't too much of a disadvantage, and then the Escort might just do the job.

But the problem here is that the WRC car is so good in a number of other areas too, like better aerodynamics.... more downforce (the Escort probably has lift) for the fast corners and probably less drag too.... so you'd want to keep away from those very fast stages.

But don't try to match the Escort against the WRC car on the tight twisty stuff either.... wheelspin out of the corners will be to the disadvantage of the 2WD Escort, and while the power is good... a 280bhp BDA isn't going to have a lot of low down torque compared to a 2.0L turbo.

So while it's possible in theory that they might give the WRC cars a fright, over a stage or two anyway, on most rallies there will be stages where the WRC handles the bumps, tight corners etc so much better. It's worth remembering those Citroen Xsara F2 rally cars that beat the WRC cars in the dry, had something like 295bhp - electronic controlled diff, modern gearbox and aero etc.

By the way, welcome to the forum Gordon.

[imull]

the fact that the top boys use WRC cars says it all. A good Escort will whip a **** WRC car/driver but put a good driver in both and the WRC car would be miles quicker...

That doesnt mean that WRC cars are better though RWD rules the way

[Cameron Winton]

Did last year's Tour Of Mull prove the point being made here?
1st place: Callum Duffy, Mk2
2nd Place Neil McKinnon WRC 99 Impreza

[buffy]

its also a money thing ,a good mk2 will be always affordable (ish ) for parts and racing ,i woulnt like to own a wrc and have those bills even if sponsor'd ,at the end of the day the mk2 driver will be looking to take the fight to the rest of the field ,the wrc drivers are always looking over there shoulders thinking they have to beat non wrc cars ,,but the wrc cars are so quick especially through the gears and out of the corners,still you cant beat the sound of a mk1 or 2 at full chat!!
cheers
matt

[backmarker]

my heart tells me one thing but my head says another,having been brought up on a diet of MK1/2 Escorts from 1973 when my father started to take me to events I still reminisce with him 30yrs later about the great 'tail out brigade' in their Boreham, Sutton and other 'works' spec cars and more recently Steve Bannister in 'Ethel' ,but maybe I'm just getting old and starting to think "they don't make them like they used too" LOL

[richorton]

i know the guy who owns ethel now,he s own it for years but never done any rallying in it,its tucked away in his garage collecting dust.he once took me out in it up the road and yes it was quick.The guy works for mini sport in lancashire just up the road from hortonracing.

[Cryos]

david james over here has a mk2 2.1/5?? (not sure which it is?) built by MASS but it develops something like 210/20 bhp, it has been first 2wd home in every event it has compeeted in this year, (avarages around 9th-12th over all).

They are a sensational machine in the right hands to whach go aroudn the sprint track at mondello, especialy david i have a few incars of him on VHS (trying to get onto CD) its a compleetly different disipline to the way i drive FWD or 4WD/AWD, i pull my hat off to anyone who drives a mk2 or a rs2000/1800(they did a 1800 right?)

[rdjones]

I have just found out that Stig Blomqvist will drive a MkII in the historic section of the Trackrod rally up here in Yorkshire in a few weeks time. Now this I have to see.

He is using the event as a shakedown for the Roger Albert Clarke Rally in November, where not only he and the legend that s Hannu Mikkola, will both drive MkII's, again a site not to missed.

[Cryos]

Cool,

Must get my hands on a mk2 sometime anyone want to let me have a go