judging a jump start

[in the zone]

What was JA talking about just before the start of the European GP, when he was explaining how drivers are given a penalty for jumping the lights at the start of a GP.
He stated that Charlie Whiting had worked the quickest possible reaction time for a human and that this equated to something like 1/10th of a second. Therefore anyone leaving the line within 1/10th of a second after the lights going out would be given a jump start penalty for pre-empting the lights.
So how, if you go after the lights have gone out can you be given a penalty??????:confused:

[Adam43]

Welcome to ten-tenths in the zone.

I too disagree with that definition of a jump start. I guess it is there to stop drivers guessing the start, but I'm not sure it does. You just guess something different (if that is how you are inclinded).

If you get it right, then good on you.

Also it is anti-Jedis and their amazing ractions.

[Inigo Montoya]

Its a similar situation in track and field. You want to test the driver's (or athlete's) reaction time, rather than how good they are at guessing when the lights go out (or when the gun will sound).

[Adam43]

I can't find anything specific about the actual definition of reaction time

157) Either of the penalties under Article 54a) or b) will be imposed for a false start judged using an FIA supplied transponder which must be fitted to the car as specified.

Trulli said something about judging it perfectly for his Barcelona start.

Renault media release after Barcelona
It was maybe the best start of my life, and the kind of getaway you dream about. I didn't really pay attention to the lights, instead I let the clutch out and it happened to be when the lights changed - it was fantastic!

IM, you have a point, but I don't think there is anyway of guessing hte lights reliably. There is a different time delay each time so you'd be lucky not to get a jump start anyway. Do they build in a reaction time in athletics?

A little off topic, but was Sato actually officially judged to have a false start in Monaco?

[hamsmith]

Originally posted by in the zone
What was JA talking about just before the start of the European GP, when he was explaining how drivers are given a penalty for jumping the lights at the start of a GP.
He stated that Charlie Whiting had worked the quickest possible reaction time for a human and that this equated to something like 1/10th of a second. Therefore anyone leaving the line within 1/10th of a second after the lights going out would be given a jump start penalty for pre-empting the lights.
So how, if you go after the lights have gone out can you be given a penalty??????:confused:

If JA said it then it was proberbly inacurate.

[Kidzer]

Yes, i think they should just look at video evidence after the race and look frame by frame to see if anyone is moving before the lights are out, if you second guess the lights and it works, good on you!

[Kicking-back]

Sato was not judged to have jumped the start in Monaco.

And as far as I know, the sensors automatically trigger a jump start penalty if you go when the reds are on.

As soon as they are out you are allowed to be moving.

[Inigo Montoya]

Originally posted by AdamAshmore
Do they build in a reaction time in athletics?

Yes, they do, and its that famous 1/10th of a second: http://www.howstuffworks.com/question702.htm

And Kicking-back, I believe that Sato was judged to have jump started, but they did not have time to bring him in before his engine blew.

[Kicking-back]

If you look at a video of the Monaco start, Sato didn't jump it

[Inigo Montoya]

Could be, KB - I thought that I heard one of the Speed guys talk about it in the race review, but I may be wrong. As for whether they actually use this 1/10th rule in F1, I also have found nothing in the regulations that states it.

[Kicking-back]

They don't have the 1/10th rule.

You can go the millisecond the lights are out.

And definitely Sato did not trigger a jump start penalty.

[Tweed]

Sato was done a couple of times in British F3 for jump starts that actually weren't as well, he's very unlucky. I wish we still had digital coverage. As soon as the cars were filing through the first few corners a disply would come up telling us whether anyone was being investigated

[Adam43]

Originally posted by Kidzer
Yes, i think they should just look at video evidence after the race and look frame by frame to see if anyone is moving before the lights are out,

They do better than that (as mentioned). They have sensors in each car.

These are mentioned in the rules.

IM thanks for the link

So we don't think they do use the 1/10th rule in F1 then? It isn't clear. I can find no rule either, but then JA did say so and why would he make it up? To be fair I have also heard it mentioned before (again probably on ITV).

Who can I ask?

[Kicking-back]

With reference Sato's alleged jumped starts in F3 - most races in F3 half the grid are creeping before the lights go out and nothing's ever done about it.

[tblincoe]

speaking of jump starts, i was watching the onboard of JPM's start at the euro gp, and he definitely moves before the lights go out, stops, then goes when the lights go out

[Gt_R]

I think that it is important that drivers make starts based on judgement...they see lights go off and they act.

Of course, guessing is another way..but not only is it slightly risky, it takes away the element of eye-hand-feet coordination.

Doesn't JV use to make some pretty good starts?

But in any case, i often use guessings in computer racing..sometimes it works wonders...often you just jump the start.

I thought the time the red lights go off varies to a couple of seconds...? So while an immediate "go" would catch some slow reacting drivers out...i think that after awhile, drivers can safely make a guess-start and anticipate it just as the lights go off.

[BootsOntheSide]

I think the 1/10s rule works pretty well. That is considered by be the absolute fastest that anyone can react, so moving before that would defiantly represent pre-empting the start. According to the ITV Nurburgring commentary, Sato was about to be penalised when the engine blew - backing up many people's suspicions about his whole race.

[1200Datto27]

Drag racing has the same sort of thing for judging a jump start, you can't have a reaction time faster than something like .06 seconds (I can't remember the exact figure) or you are considered to have jumped.