Force India, are they that bad?

cds_uk · 25 Apr 2009, 15:09 (Ref:2449296)

Is it just me or does the car look half decent and its the drivers that are letting them down, i have to say i dont think Sutil is anything other than competent, and that is being generous, and Fisi, whilst he was a fine driver in his day is now way past his best. I my opinion if you had a Senna, Pantano or di Resta in the car, Q2 would be on every other race at least.

Knowlesy · 25 Apr 2009, 15:19 (Ref:2449305)

The car doesn't look that good. It was late in coming and was built by the smallest, weakest team on the grid. It was never going to be all that great.

I'd be surprised if any of the three you mention could get it into Q2. Senna is raw, Pantano is an F1 reject and di Resta, well, what do we have to go by?

F1 is so close right now that it is difficult for anyone to progress, let alone FI.

the sniper · 25 Apr 2009, 15:39 (Ref:2449327)

Quote:

Originally Posted by cds_uk

Is it just me or does the car look half decent and its the drivers that are letting them down, i have to say i dont think Sutil is anything other than competent, and that is being generous

Don't Sutil's excellent performances in the wet count for anything? To me he's proven he could be good if he had a decent car underneath him.

JeremySmith · 25 Apr 2009, 16:15 (Ref:2449341)

I think it's the same old story, the pilot can only shine if the car is up to to the task..

Marbot · 25 Apr 2009, 16:21 (Ref:2449346)

I think FI are doing a great job.Unfortunately the teams in front of them are all doing a slightly better one.Could be a force (sorry) to reckon with if the £30m budget comes along.

Knowlesy · 25 Apr 2009, 16:39 (Ref:2449353)

Yes, the budget limitation could help. But I'm still not sure I'd tikka chance on them at the bookies.

Burnsie · 25 Apr 2009, 16:43 (Ref:2449355)

andy_b · 25 Apr 2009, 18:08 (Ref:2449392)

I think its relatively slow, by 2009 standards, but in reality its not a bad car. Look at the difference in Q3 (or Q2) times from front to back and the field is actually pretty close compared to 3-4 or even 10 years ago.

Unfortunate situation, but I dont really see how they will work the way up.... IMHO its not so much they can't do the job, its just I feel the others can do a better one.

With STR now reguarly keeping RBR on their toes and once (its only time) Piquet goes, there is going to be a fair gap (relative!!!

) between Fif1 and the others.

f1manoz · 25 Apr 2009, 18:52 (Ref:2449421)

Overall, I don't think it's a bad car and if FI had a driver like Hamilton behind the wheel, then I think it could be higher up the order.

Fisichella is past it while Sutil really only shines in the wet. FI are caught between a rock and hard place - they need an experienced pilot and taking on a raw recruit would not really help with development.

Marbot · 25 Apr 2009, 19:16 (Ref:2449436)

I think Sutil is doing well,but Fisi seems to be in a Korma.

kipper · 25 Apr 2009, 20:06 (Ref:2449456)

I don't think that the team is all that bad. However, they are made to look worse due to the competitive natures of F1's mid pack. A change in drivers may be a positive move for Fischella seems to have past his peak, whilst Sutil has put in some encouraging performances, he seems to lack consistency.

JeremySmith · 25 Apr 2009, 20:14 (Ref:2449462)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marbot

I think Sutil is doing well,but Fisi seems to be in a Korma.

So vindaloo in a situation like that then..

shambles · 25 Apr 2009, 20:40 (Ref:2449475)

I think you're being a bit overly critical cds_uk, I think the team is under-funded and the car, don't forget, had to be completed re-modelled after the late, late deal with Merc (I know that the same could be said for Brawn but the base in funding was/is completely different).

However, Fisichella, for me, is way past it and has been now for a number of seasons. If I were Force India I'd be, as has been rumored, looking to Liuzzi to step up for this season at least in that seat. With Sutil, I think he's been average but with flashes of higher levels of competence. He has to prove himself this season but if I were Mallya I'd be looking at Liuzzi and di Resta for next season.

cds_uk · 25 Apr 2009, 20:46 (Ref:2449477)

shambles, i think you have misread this mate, my point was i think the car is ok and the drivers are failing to put it where it should be, i think you are on the money about giving Liuzzi a crack though.

JeremySmith · 25 Apr 2009, 20:48 (Ref:2449479)

Jarno Trulli's time....1:33.431

Giancarlo Fisichella's time 1:33.910

The difference between Pole and position 18 on the grid.

Knowlesy · 25 Apr 2009, 20:52 (Ref:2449481)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marbot

I think Sutil is doing well,but Fisi seems to be in a Korma.

Your pun is not currying favour with me.

Knowlesy · 25 Apr 2009, 20:53 (Ref:2449483)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

Jarno Trulli's time....1:33.431

Giancarlo Fisichella's time 1:33.910

The difference between Pole and position 18 on the grid.

Trulli was on race fuel though, Fisi on fumes. Nevertheless, the ultimate times are fairly close.

JeremySmith · 25 Apr 2009, 20:56 (Ref:2449488)

Well not really, and yes they are..

http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/news/2009/...leased-by-fia/

Ralf's Girl · 25 Apr 2009, 21:06 (Ref:2449498)

Quote:

Originally Posted by cds_uk

Is it just me or does the car look half decent and its the drivers that are letting them down, i have to say i dont think Sutil is anything other than competent, and that is being generous, and Fisi, whilst he was a fine driver in his day is now way past his best. I my opinion if you had a Senna, Pantano or di Resta in the car, Q2 would be on every other race at least.

I think you're being a tad harsh on the drivers. I don't they're up to much - I'm not sure I understand the hype about Sutil, and Fisichella is surely on his way out at the end of the season - but equally I don't think the car is 'half decent'. It came out very late and was built by a small team with less money than all its competitors. I think there are drivers who could wrestle it into Q2, but not very many.

Knowlesy · 25 Apr 2009, 21:17 (Ref:2449507)

I'd be surprised if Fisi ran that fuel in Q1 Jeremy.

JeremySmith · 25 Apr 2009, 21:19 (Ref:2449508)

Okay then David..

I am trying...

But the car is not that bad and Fisi not bad also, as some would wish to point out..

Knowlesy · 25 Apr 2009, 21:22 (Ref:2449510)

Not to worry, a lot of people have got confused by that this season!

OZ_HCR32 · 25 Apr 2009, 22:51 (Ref:2449562)

Sutil is a curious one. He has been shading Fisi which is all he can really do. He does seem to pop up in wet races but i think that has more to do with the variability of wet races rather then a pedigree that allows him to rise to the top.

Weakest team on the grid with the weakest drivers. They need to do a Minardi and get a youg guy in there who can be flashy and be sold off for coin

Robin_D · 25 Apr 2009, 23:43 (Ref:2449579)

Every time I come on here and see Force India getting a complete ribbing and everyone having a popodom.

It's time to stop the joshing.

Dead-Eye · 25 Apr 2009, 23:57 (Ref:2449584)

I think the wet races give Sutil a chance to show what he can really do. IMO rain acts as a bit of an equalizer between cars and driver skill matters more.
In the dry though, he seems to have a tendency to try too hard, possibly in a vain attempt to make up for the car's deficits. Given a decent mid-pack car, I'd expect him to be at least on par with the other decent mid-pack drivers.

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