500cc 2stroke GP bike enigines, what are their power outputs?

[Robin Plummer]

Can someone here tell me what the approx horsepower outputs are on the current 500cc V2, V3 and V4 Grand Prix bike engines are?

[Leo]

The output of a Honda 500cc V4 2stroke is about 200 horsepower. The 1998 version was slightly more powerful (over 200hp), because it ran on special fuel. This year only unleaded fuel can be used.

[Robin Plummer]

I heard a rumour that the 99 Yamaha was pusing out 240bhp which to me seem's unbeliveable!.

[Sparky]

Welcome to the Forum Leo!!

I'm afraid I'm not too familiar with 2-stroke engines, let alone the Grand Prix stuff, but I would imagine that power development would keep pace with the reduction in fuel quality. Improvements in the quality of materials, engine design and induction / exhaust systems should mean that the 240bhp that Robin mentions would be quite possible, even on current low-octane fuel.

[Leo]

Thanks, Sparky!

As in F1, manufactures keep the output of their engines as secret as possible. But the 200+ Hp for the 1998 season, I'm quite sure about. I think it was the first year the 200hp barrier was broken. I'm also quite sure the 1999 engines were less powerfull, because all riders and engineers said so!
240hp is too much, I think.

[THR]

240? no way

so what is a usual HP for a 1200cc bike? that is tuned?
A ford Hart 1600cc BDA is only about 240-280 BHP @10200 rpm

[Robin Plummer]

THR, a 1600cc BDA is a 4cyl, 4 stroke twin cam 16v engine. A 500cc V4 2-stroke with 4 cams has effectively twice the potenial power output of a 500cc 4-stroke so yes 240bhp is within reach to an ultra efficient 500cc 2stroke engine reving to about 12,250rpm. Honda's 1999 750cc V4 4cam 4-stroke superbike engine in the RC-45 produces 180bhp at 15,000rpm.

[THR]

um,
180 is a bit less than 280?
The BDA is a comparison,
bike engines are approaching them but not quite there yet.
U think that a 500cc is as powerful?
not a chance in my view.
even if it is as powerful, the application depends i believe.

[Robin Plummer]

180bhp is a lot less than 280bhp but then 750cc is a lot less than 1600cc!!

Therorically if the engine was bored out to 1500cc or more likly two 750cc engines joined by a common cranshaft then the potential power output is 360bhp! from 1.5 litres. A 1.5 litre V4 2 stroke based on GP bike technolgy has the potential to produce 600bhp!! so it would blow a 1600BDA into the weeds.

[THR]

Power is in now way proportional to the size of the engine you know!
a 3litre v10 say about 700bhp, a 750 say 180.
not proportional!
more losses with bigger engines.
uncomparable really, more power is not always faster

[Sparky]

Actually THR, the power to engine capacity ratios for both engines you mention are IDENTICAL!!

You said: "3litre v10 say about 700bhp, a 750 say 180"


A bit of maths...

700 divided by 3000 = 0.24bhp / cc

180 divided by 750 = 0.24bhp / cc

Perfectly proportioned!!

I still think 240bhp from a 500 cc 2-stroke is possible

[THR]

700/3000=0.233
180/750=0.240

Quite a big difference really

Anyway, a hyabusa engine is for sale. rebored and Cosworth pistons, properly done by a engine dude.

puts out 240BHP no less! and wow this is a 1100ish cc engine (rebored bigger i think)

so no chance of a 750 being 240BHP

[Leo]

And again, this is how it is:

GP500 4cyl.: around 200hp. (If the Yamaha really had 240hp they'd won every GP last year!!)
Superbikes (both 1000cc V2, and 750cc 4 cyl.): slightly less than GP500, but not much. I guess 180-190hp. Just take a look at the laptimes from tracks used by both series.
Hayabusa; a street legal version has 180hp. You can't tune it to 240hp without serious reliability problems.

F1 3.0 V10: over 800hp, with the most powerfull engines for next year around 840hp.

[Robin Plummer]

It's hard to tell the horsepower differneces between GP bikes and Superbikes as SB's weight at least 32kg more. SB teams tend to advertised their power more openly than GP teams. For example Ducatti say the their 99' 1000V2 4 stroke puts out 163bhp @ 11,500rpm. Where as a Suzuki,Honda, Yamaha 500c V4 strokes are advertised as "more than 180bhp". These same teams in 1989 said "more than 160bhp" 10 years ago, so I would expect the development to have surpassed this even with unleaded fuel.

As for the Suzuki Heyabusa engine THR it's a 1300cc in normal trim kicking out 173-180bhp depending on what country you live in! @240bhp it would probably self distruct quite quickly!!.

As for the Yamaha 500cc V4 2stroke being 240bhp that quote was from Max Biggai in Autosport mag this year.

[THR]

240 is possible from a hyabusa!!!!!!

if you can get 240 (so u say) from a 500cc
what makes you think you cant get 240 from a 1300?

superbikes arent that much quicker even cos of the power, because of that extra weight they carry throu the corners.
weight is everything!

Superbikes arent quite as devolped as GP bikes. but, the haybusa uses pretty much all the technololgy availible. so it can easily produce 240bhp. a bit of beefing up the drive train may need to be done, but that is to be expected as the engine was only designed for 180.

[Robin Plummer]

One question? A Suzuki Hyabusa costs £8500 produces 173bhp and can go 200mph, but people still buy Ducatti's and Bimota's that have 1 litre V-Twin's with 126bhp and a top speed of 165mph and cost £14,000-£23,000!!!

[THR]

Yea,
wot can i say!
bikers for you. complete nutters!
cars are much better!

[Robin Plummer]

I have just bought Jermery Clarkson's Head to Head on DVD. And it proves to any bikers out there that a well sorted car can beat a top bike around a race track. They pit Jason Plato in a Porsche Carrera 4 v's Nial McKenzie on a Yamaha R1 at Thruxton and the car gets it by .750 sec. The bike accelerated better by about 1.5 seconds, was faster on the straights by about 35mph but could not corner or go round bends or chicanes as fast as the car!. It also pits a Focus WRC v Stewart Ford F1 around silverstone the rally car was 37 seconds a lap slower!. This was very interesting because I remember reading somewhere that Henri Tovienn in 1986 went round Estoril in Portugal in a group B 450bhp Lancia Delta S4 in a time that would have qualifed him about 12th on the grid!!!

[Leo]

Robin, a Dutch car magazine did a similar comparison a few months ago. Tom Coronel (Formula Nippon Champion) in a Subaru Impreza WRX against Jurgen van de Goorbergh (500cc GP racer) on a Yamaha R6. The battle took place on the 4km version of the Assen track and Jurgen beat Tom by more than 2 seconds! The bike was much faster on acceleration, and amazingly Jurgen took it 40kph faster through the Ramshoek (full throttle 6th gear left hander) than Tom did with the Scooby. The car was better in slow corners though, with much shorter brake distances, and much more traction on the exit (the R6 was very anxious to 'wheelie'). In general on a track with many (slow) curves cars tend to have the advantage. And of course cars with downforce are way ahead! That's why F1 is faster than GP500, the bikes lose all the time in the corners only.


[This message has been edited by Leo (edited 29 November 1999).]

[Robin Plummer]

What about a 250 Intercontential or ICE Superkart? How much power and what sort of laptimes in comparrison to Bikes and Cars?

[Warwick]

A superkart will beat almost any bike or car,on most tracks mainly because of high corner speeds and power to weight,the reason the fast cars can beat a bike comes down to tyre contact area in the corners,think how much tread is in contact on the track at full lean on a bike compared to a car,on my local track the Brittens fastest lap is 1m.32s for 3.5km the fastest lap for superkart is 1m.30s,

[Robin Plummer]

A 250 ICE Superkart have 250cc 2 stroke 2 cyclinder engines I assume they put out? what 90bhp-110bhp??? How much do they weigh?

[Warwick]

Yup i am using a TZ250 which puts out approx 80-85hp(if i ever get it finished) without serious mods or factory race kit the y2k motor puts out 92hp in standard form without the race kit parts,its thought the works bikes motors are 100hp+,weight varies we run no set weights (190-210kg). in Australia they can't run lower than 210kg,dunno about the UK,at Assen a superkart was clocked at 160mph+ about 6 years ago,Coulthard drove one and reckoned it was on par with his F1 till about 100mph

[Robin Plummer]

That's coool!!!, Do they run with semi-auto gearboxes?

What sort of 0-60mph and 0-100mph times does a well sorted Superkart do?

[Warwick]

Same gearbox as a motorcycle,we run a paddle type change on the steering column so we dont have to take our hands off,one side for up the other for down,dunno bout the acceleration times but they are running 10sec quarter mile times and high 9sec is meant to be possible but theyre a prick to get off line,we normaly run rolling starts,look in cool sites under your message i left some sites,