IndyCar 2011 - Quebec & Qingdao

[crozier74]

Just found on the Wiki for IndyCar 2011 that they're looking into the possibility of street races in Quebec, Canada and Qingdao, China for 2011 or the near future. As such, I had a bash at them.

As a function of the city streets themselves, have ended up with two very different tracks in nature - Quebec very narrow, twisty and hilly, reminiscent of Monaco (apparantly what they were aiming for); Qingdao very wide, fast and flat, with lots of long straights.

Quebec, 5.2km, 32 corners, anti-clockwise
(alternative 4.8km, 26 corner version, that skips the twisty section around the Place de la Gare)

Qingdao, 6.2km, 16 corners, clockwise

Comments? Also, feel free to have a go yourselves

[Matt]

Both are way too long and the Quebec one has way too many corners.

[crozier74]

See shorter edit of Quebec that I uploaded just as you posted that, has 6 corners less.

Granted they're quite long for IndyCar street circuits, can knock a km or 2 off here or there. Better have more and work back than the other way around. I'd disagree that at 4.8km Quebec is "way" too long, maybe a bit, as Sao Paolo is 4.0km. Fair enough for Qingdao though.

The Quebec one is so twisty by necessity, because you really have to snake around to avoid all of the cobbled and ridiculously narrow streets lol!

[Matt]

Still far too long and too many corners...

Most street courses are between 3 and 4km long, and none have that many corners[bar Singapore and Valencia(I don't count Valencia as a street circuit. It's a permanent facility which happens to be in a metropolitan location.)].

[crozier74]

Exactly, Singapore being my case in point. That's 5.0km as well, 23 turns. Monaco's even worse for corners/km (with a ratio slightly higher than Quebec v2). They're cases of exception proving the rule - not everything has to be so conformist when it comes to street circuits. Plus, this is largely a fantasy board, not everything has to be 100% realistic - pardon me for using some artistic licence

If you dislike them so much then have a go yourself and give us all something better

If it's an improvement, made an edit of Qingdao to bring it down to 4.5km, 13 corners, which largely keeps all the good bits and the character.

Or you could cut it even more, by skipping out Xianggang Middle Rd, to get it down to 3.8km, 14 corners. I used a chicane just before the S/F to break up the long flat-out run, but tbh I don't think it will make much difference - with this version the sweeper is going to be insanely fast regardless (unless you change it to run ACW)!

Also, going the other way around Wusi Square might be an option, as although it might not be as balls-out a section as if you used the fast esses, it would help bring the lap speeds down a bit and be a bit more technical, not to mention reducing the likelihood of cars ending up in the East China Sea!

[mountainstar]

Qingdao? What is Ropin Randy throwing darts at a world map now?

[Helicon_One]

Much of the Quebec circuit looks to be only two lanes wide, way too narrow for racing.

I know you said 'reminiscent of Monaco' but Monaco is only accepted as a race circuit because of the history, if someone came along tomorrow with the same circuit layout it would never be used for anything bigger than karting, never mind F1.

[duke_toaster]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

Qingdao? What is Ropin Randy throwing darts at a world map now?

Rather large city, held the sailing events in the 2008 Olympics ... but it's in a country that by and large doesn't care about motor racing.

[Quintin03]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

Qingdao? What is Ropin Randy throwing darts at a world map now?

I believe it was an old idea of the former leadership. I also heard it would be a permanent facility holding 1,000,000 spectators. Altogether we get impossibility.

[Purist]

Yeah, I don't know exactly when that China street circuit race came up. Then again, I'd half like to send Crozier's 4.5km version to Tony Cotman for a serious review.

BTW, DTM is running their final race this season on a street circuit in Shanghai, and this time, it IS a points-paying round. Back in 2004, they ran a non-points race on a different street circuit.

As for Quebec City, it has been explicitly stated that the organizers are looking at a Monaco-esque street circuit around the "old city". Make of that what you will.

P.S. Sao Paulo is 4.180km. Surfers Paradise, up until this year, was 4.498km, and Macau is 6.115km. Singapore has already been mentioned. Also, though it's quoted at 2.4 miles, according to the aerial photo on Google, the new Baltimore street circuit measures 2.67 miles (4.297km).

[xlr8r]

few years ago I thought up a course for Quebec, that is a little simpler than your versions.

Here

http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=3833000

[Yannick]

IndyCar in China? Is that really necessary? There are so many classic tracks that need to be back on the IZOD IndyCar Series calendar in the US alone (and let's not forget Surfers) that I cannot see any need for a Chinese race when the enthusiasm of spectators would be much bigger in other places abroad, such as Brands Hatch for example.

However, it would be a pleasure, though, to see Indy Cars racing on Ile De Notre Dame in Montreal. And a return to Hermanos Rodriguez in Mexico City would be great, too, but that is unlikely at the time with Mexico's drug problems.

[Quintin03]

Drug problem in what sence? The USA has the most addicts per inhabitant so that shouldn't be the problem.

[duke_toaster]

It's the drugs gang related violence, not the actual drugs themselves.

[crozier74]

http://www.indycar.com/news/show/55-...i-hao-qingdao/

Originally Posted by Matt

Both are way too long

Originally Posted by Dave Lewandowski

The IZOD IndyCar Series will race Aug. 19 on a 3.87-mile street circuit in Qingdao

Whoops...

Seems AutoRacing1 had similar ideas to me on the potential layout. Difference is that theirs has a 2.2km straight, which is ridiculous even compared to Anhembi's 1.4km one. They could feasibly break it up into a 1.5km and 700m straights with use of the chicane I proposed in my 3.8km version, but I'd imagine IndyCar would try to avoid that where possible. It's also (according to Google Maps) 5.8km long, which is a bit short of the target.

I'm imagining they'll want to run it in front of the impressive government building. I think my first version in the OP wasn't too bad, and quite like the 'fishtail' section with the fast sweeper at Jiashike Eastern Dept store, but taking a cue from the AutoRacing1 version and extending the seafront section westward past Music Square a bit, came up with this alternative (again, 6.2km). Is maybe a bit too long-straight-into-90's though But the seafront section around Wusi Square should still be awesome!

Anyone else got any other takes on Qingdao? Can't wait to see what the real layout will be when it's announced - these streets look like they could make for a great track!

[Purist]

The little blurb up on the NZR Consulting website (that's Tony Cotman's track design group, btw) doesn't specifically mention the port or waterfront of Qingdao. It does mention wide streets, fast flowing corners, and elevation.

Assuming the elevation mention has some reality to it, would that mean the circuit is actually somewhere else in the city than the various speculated plans would suggest?