Stand Up!!

[Hepatic]

OK, how many other people here are currently sreaming at the TV for the marshals at Barcelona to get off their lazy damn backsides and stand up when the cars are screaming past them?! I cannot believe how many people i've seen sat down when, as the McLaren so clearly demonstrated, a car could come straight at them at any time..

[The STIG]

Well, I'm not. The reason being I'm not watching F1 but waiting for some real motorsport to come on!

However I'm reasonably certain that in many parts of the world, these marshaling basics have not quite been noticed yet.

Here's a question. why do marshals abroad wear helmets?

[tubbylardo]

They wear helmets so they can listen to their iPod without the post chief getting upset.

[archaic gold]

Originally Posted by Hepatic

OK, how many other people here are currently sreaming at the TV for the marshals at Barcelona to get off their lazy damn backsides and stand up when the cars are screaming past them?! I cannot believe how many people i've seen sat down when, as the McLaren so clearly demonstrated, a car could come straight at them at any time..

Is that any different to Bike Marshals in the UK? I was sitting in the MSV Offices at Brands Hatch on BSB when Chris Walker came off at Clearways big time and his bike landed on top of the tyre wall below our window. THAT made the Marshals stand up rapidly. Having worked at 9 WSB Meetings and many BSB Meetings, I can assure you that it is common for Marshals to be reclining on camp chairs etc!! However, I have rearely seen this at Car meetings!

[Mike Kelly 1]

Not only sitting down but also wearing T shirts.

[bludvl_x19]

I did see a stack of marshals just sitting there, like they were spectators, I thought that was pretty poor form.

In the first safety car period, there was a camera shot of the SC coming out of pit lane, while showing a marshal holding a SC board, and the one on yellow just holding it over the wall. Surely with a camera nearby, and therefore the chance of going out on international TV (like this joker) you would be doing everything by the book, and so waving it like a madman???

Mick

[Bodysnatcher]

think I even saw one guy topless.....

However, I just have to say that sometimes the stiff upper lipped British way is not the only way to marshal....

F'rinstance I have no problem with some of the team sitting down (if they wish to & its safe to do so) in circumstances that increase the overall performace of the group.
In other words if its too hot or you're in the middle of a 24 hour race where there's only a total of 6 crew for the whole blimming race.

Maybe Barcelona was too hot for some of the team (given that they did look a wee bit amateur - how many round Heiki's car doing the headless chicken to begin with?)

Finally, the easiest marshal's post to criticise is the one that somebody else is on.

[Bodysnatcher]

Originally Posted by The STIG

Here's a question. why do marshals abroad wear helmets?

because the marshal team/club they belong to makes it compulsory
(bit like racesafe's insurance cover makes it compulsory to attend one of their training days before you can work trackside - something I find myself in agreement with)

[Mark Mitchell]

Originally Posted by The STIG

Here's a question. why do marshals abroad wear helmets?

They weren't abroad!!

(You ask 'em!! )

[The STIG]

Originally Posted by Mark Mitchell

They weren't abroad!!

(You ask 'em!! )

All right then, anywhere but here (with a few exceptions)

[Miss Pebbles]

Originally Posted by Bodysnatcher

how many round Heiki's car doing the headless chicken to begin with?

that was something else I noticed, they all seemed to be panicking and while it was obviously a serious situation and they needed to act quickly, no-one seemed to know what to do, and there were way too many of them there getting in the way. Turns out they did a good job in the end though and I suppose thats what matters

There was so much I picked up on with the marshals watching this race, maybe it was where the cameras were placed, or maybe they just were bad!
the t-shirts (yes its hot but wouldnt you prefer that to burning?!), the sitting down (right in front of a TV camera!), and also the guys who went to Rosberg's car didnt seem to have any urgency, even though they thought it was on fire and it was on the pit straight with cars flying past

I did also notice one who was extremely keen with his yellow flag during the safety car - I dont think he could have kept up waving it that madly for long!

[TFHarv]

Even though this is a sign of poor standards at the circuit in question surely if we are performing our duties better than them and being more astute, aware and protective of our standards in this country then we can proudly stand up and be counted as marshals doing there job properly and not having to be shown as being amateurish and unsafe during TV broadcast events ?

I would say point them out, report them as poor examples of what we do properly week on week and maybe they will hire some of us to go over and show them the correct methods to follow to make the event safer for all.

I have to say I have seen nothing but professionalism in all the days I have marshaled so far and would hate to be seen to be tarnished with the same brush as those that don't perform their duties, freely offered or otherwise, to the best of their abilities whenever they are on post.

As pointed out above I would rather be hot than burning and if i was a driver would much rather see fully clad marshals ready to jump in and save my life than see them donning overalls whilst I sit in a burning car waiting for them to get ready to go over and help.

Maybe im being harsh but to me it is a very responsible position to be in and im sure its said you can't go racing without us so the least we could do is be professional when out on the front line.

[gwar]

Originally Posted by The STIG

Well,
Here's a question. why do marshals abroad wear helmets?

Tend to notice this a lot lately.........how long do you think :health and safety: will take to get us in the uk to start wearing them......i,ll give it 5 years max.

[The STIG]

Originally Posted by gwar

Tend to notice this a lot lately.........how long do you think :health and safety: will take to get us in the uk to start wearing them......i,ll give it 5 years max.

Health and safety involved - think months, nee seconds...

But what style would they be? Knowing the UK we'll end up looking like orange clad builders.

Back to the topic I thinkHarv there has a good point about the overalls. At least they were wearing orange T shirts, but there's no real excuse, after all, what would have happened in the freak occasion that a car scores a direct hit on the post and bursts into flames.

[archaic gold]

Originally Posted by gwar

Tend to notice this a lot lately.........how long do you think :health and safety: will take to get us in the uk to start wearing them......i,ll give it 5 years max.

Many, many, years ago, I can remember Fire Marshals at Silverstone in Silver suits with Silver Helmets!!!! How hot is that! When Clerking one day at a BRDC Meeting, Chris Norman, the then BRDC Competitions Manager, saying to me "I still have a Container full of Silver Suits and Helmets if you know of anybody wishing for them?"

[Bodysnatcher]

Originally Posted by The STIG

Back to the topic I thinkHarv there has a good point about the overalls. At least they were wearing orange T shirts, but there's no real excuse, after all, what would have happened in the freak occasion that a car scores a direct hit on the post and bursts into flames.

"no real excuse" ? Do we know what instructions the RACC issues? It may be that overalls are not mandatory, maybe you just have to wear orange, maybe flaggies don't need to wear ovies. C'mon get a grip.

Other countries other ways.

At the US GPs - plain dark blue coveralls, proper US (local) firemen to tackle fires. Canada white clothing preferred, again local firemen to tackle fires. Le Mans white poly/cotton ovies - just don't get stupid close to the fire.

Even in this country we do not have agreement about what the colour of overalls should be - it's just the majority have adopted orange, and AFAIK, there is no ruling for them to be flameproof.

[gachjoel]

Some really good valid points in this thread...

But did anyone actually watch the race or just the ability of the Marshals..

F1 eeerrrmmmm,prob after lap 2..the marshals...

[archaic gold]

Originally Posted by gachjoel

Some really good valid points in this thread...

But did anyone actually watch the race or just the ability of the Marshals..

F1 eeerrrmmmm,prob after lap 2..the marshals...

Eeeer Yes! I seemed to notice that the SMO's car on Circuit without any lights on?????? perhaps it was just the sun, but you could see the Safety Car revolving lights!!

[archaic gold]

Originally Posted by gachjoel

Some really good valid points in this thread...

But did anyone actually watch the race or just the ability of the Marshals..

F1 eeerrrmmmm,prob after lap 2..the marshals...

Eeeer Yes! I seemed to notice that the SMO's car on Circuit without any lights on?????? perhaps it was just the sun, but you could see the Safety Car revolving lights!!

[Shelagh]

Noticed a large bunch sitting down, but they were quite a distance from the track with a gravel trap in between. Agree that they have probably never experienced an accident like (Koval.... Kolva.....) Heike's - otherwise they would not have been so blase. But, I was "observing" at Donington post 4 last Saturday and advised my 2 incident guys to sit through the last race, so long as they were behind the debris fencing and watching the cars - mind you this was the 90 min race at the end of a very cold day finishing at nearly 8pm.

Regarding helmets - I can't figure what benefit they provide unless it is on the offchance that some debris hits you on the head. Even worse is the open face helmet with the flameproof balaclava underneath. Trot out the old chestnut - if you are so close to need it then you are too d****d close.

PS: Had the GP on TV but the laptop tuned to Radio Le Mans and the timing screen from Monza - much more interesting. That Ortelli crash has to be seen to be believed and that would have made those Spanish marshals stand up!

[gachjoel]

Originally Posted by Miss Pebbles

that was something else I noticed, they all seemed to be panicking and while it was obviously a serious situation and they needed to act quickly, no-one seemed to know what to do, and there were way too many of them there getting in the way.

but if you look at footage of the incident,they were on scene very quickly,
1 marshal done a quick assesment by looking where the driver/tyre wall was,then they beckoned the snatch unit within seconds,then they tried to pull the car out.
I think it was a controlled headless chicken thing.

archaic gold
There is a brief shot of the cmo`s car coming out behind the safety car,and it does look like he doesn`t have his lights on,plus the safety car seemed to hold him up for a bit.
Maybe some one should have Blue Flagged the Safety Car....

[The STIG]

Originally Posted by gachjoel

But did anyone actually watch the race or just the ability of the Marshals..

What race?

[The STIG]

Originally Posted by Bodysnatcher

a rant

Hey, calm down a bit. Unless you can't tell the bit about "at least they were orange" was meant to be tongue in cheek.

even if there's no ruling on flame proof properties or colour, There's still a ruling, or at least strong advice, for wearing long sleeves. that way if you do get unwittingly or otherwise caught in a fire you'll have a bit more protection than if not. And yes, I know Spain's hot and sunny - which is more reason for wearing long sleeves anyway.

[Mark Mitchell]

Originally Posted by Shelagh

That Ortelli crash has to be seen to be believed and that would have made those Spanish marshals stand up!

And here is the crash from YouTube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_0pdtyNBiU

[Bodysnatcher]

Sorry Stig I could not tell your comment was tongue in cheek.

And hey, that was'nt even close to a rant, I just don't like this continual "we is right" & "they is wrong" attitude.

Let me say it again then, perhaps put more simply. Maybe (cos we don't know) those that had T shirts on were not "fire" or "intervention" marshals.

However, they did look a bit motley. Lets hope that any close up of a marshal's post at the British GP shows us all uniformly dressed, in pristine overalls, standing sharply to attention with our bibs proudly displaying that for an F1 event, we are reduced to mere numbers. :-)
(now that bit WAS tongue in cheek)

As for Ortelli's accident, I would have needed pampers if that was coming towards me, not a bright orange cotton romper suit.