Developing Solutions

[littlefarny]

Another hair-brained scheme from moi

We've all seen F1 taking technology and running to the hills with it, we've all seen Formula Student and FSAE making proper engineers out of students and the garden shed brigade bringing us some of the best sports cars around.

But...is there an outlet that can use a budget to allow creative freedom to design and engineer the best, greenest and most durable racing car on a shoestring?

Say you took a standard engine (100cc bike engine for example), and then imposed a budget (say £1000) and give teams creative freedom in design, systems, fuel and KERS technology to create cars that have to undergo certain tests (sprints, endurance, handling, drag).

Would it be possible? As in, would you be able to design something like that on such a tight budget if you started off with a donor or somesuch?

It would not only help with keeping motorsport costs down, but would be a good engineering springboard for developing ingenius solutions to certain design problems (and would hopefully provide some spectator interest and spectacle).
It wouldn't be limited to students like FSAE, it could be open to schools, uni's, individuals and companies.

Good idea, or unfeasible? Thoughts encouraged.

[Al Weyman]

Sinclair C5 with a 2nd hand lawn mower engine fitted? Seriously how on earth could you expect to build something from scratch with such a low budget.

[littlefarny]

You see people building Locosts for sub.£600 in some cases, as well as small buggy-kart hybrids for that (which could well be turned into something resembling a small racing car. Start with a donor, and then utilize the little grey cells to pull out anything else that you need to do on it.

I used the monies as a rather basic example, but a certain budget after a donor has been sought would impose a restriction that you don't find in race series really today.

[GORDON STREETER]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/16345037@N03/2271857977/
If you have the know how anything is possible, as my mate proved in his garden workshop !

[snett fan55]

Gordon,
excellent positive idea to encourage the inventive,clever and parsimonious amongst us, with the breadth of engineering skill at the heart of this country it ought to be a go-er. But we'll probably have lots of negative comments about budgets,safety and the like.I say,if you can,and you believe in it, you should make it!

[Speedy1]

http://www.electrathonamerica.org/
the original Austrialian template for this racing:
each competior powered the vehicle with a single automotive type 64, 12 volt starting battery and see how far can you go in one hour

fun challenge and low cost

[Speedy1]

built in a garden shop?
amazing what can done with pruning shears and a spade
the craftsmanship is a bit above the average garden tomato
nice

Originally Posted by GORDON STREETER

http://www.flickr.com/photos/16345037@N03/2271857977/
If you have the know how anything is possible, as my mate proved in his garden workshop !

[GORDON STREETER]

I'm not kidding it really is a workshop in his garden ! Its immaculate inside (eat your dinner off the floor touch) his attention to detail and expertise in getting around a just about impossible job is second to none. He can't bear this throw away and overcomplicated world that we are in, and will normally find an alternative way to make something better and cheaper than he can buy. He's helped me out loads of times making up and repairing specialised parts for my race car, and being about a mile from my workshop it does have its advantages !!!!

[dtype38]

Main problem with any scheme that involves a "limited budget" is how to set a reasonably level playing field. I mean a bloke with £100k of machine tools and other kit in his home workshop and plenty of connections in the engineering trade could probably make quite a large and complex machine for £1000. He only really needs to buy materials. An enthusiastic amateur with a few tools in his garage, a bit of mechanical skill, and buying components from shops and catalogues can't possibly compete.

My only suggestion would be that the finished item had to be made from a specific list of priced materials and that draughting, cnc programming, machining, prototyping, assembly, testing, etc. etc. were all provided free. Then it would only be limited by the designers knowledge and imagination. Hard to set up though.

They have the same problem trying to limit budgets in F1. If you come up with a workable solution then I'm sure everyone would be interested :-))

[GORDON STREETER]

Agreed on the level playing field, so maybe they could do it on a TV programme.
Just a minute it has . SCRAPYARD CHALLENGE !

[GORDON STREETER]

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=YPrZ5J9nk-4
It could be done !!!

[dtype38]

A good friend of mine told me that he just happened to be working next to where one of those Scrap Heap Challenge programmes was being made. He said that before filming a couple of lorries turned up and offloaded a whole load of "useful" items from which the projects might be built. These were then distributed around a scrap yard, but that it wasn't really a scrap yard because it had been created as a set for the programme over the previous few days. Anyway, he said the "useful" items were then "hidden" around the yard for the two teams to "find". He even suggested that it might be more than coincidence that nearly all of the items just happened to be exactly what the two teams needed for their projects.

But I stress that this is only a "story" told to me by a friend who might have been completely "mistaken" in what he'd seen.

[Chris Y]

Originally Posted by dtype38

A good friend of mine told me that he just happened to be working next to where one of those Scrap Heap Challenge programmes was being made. He said that before filming a couple of lorries turned up and offloaded a whole load of "useful" items from which the projects might be built. These were then distributed around a scrap yard, but that it wasn't really a scrap yard because it had been created as a set for the programme over the previous few days. Anyway, he said the "useful" items were then "hidden" around the yard for the two teams to "find". He even suggested that it might be more than coincidence that nearly all of the items just happened to be exactly what the two teams needed for their projects.

But I stress that this is only a "story" told to me by a friend who might have been completely "mistaken" in what he'd seen.

All true. The original series (I think) was done in a real scrap yard, but most subsequent series were done in a purpose built yard, usually next to a working scrap yard. Certain items are places around the yard where necessary, like oil drums if it's a water event needing sponsons, etc. Or props for outboard motors.

These items are usually well hidden, but sometime Robert Llewellyn has been known to hang around in certain spots as a 'bit of a hint' He'll even point or cough or kick something, in case the competitors are a little slow! Yes, it's a bit stage managed, but I think it has to be, otherwise it would be grossly unfair if the yard ran out of certain items, for instance.

What the experts suggest to the teams to build is known well in advance, so that certain supplies can be brought in. Oh, and certain safety equipment and critical parts are always available 'new' - i.e. shaft bearings (you'll see a lot of them) and bucket seats.

That sort of info is freely available in the 'behind the scenes' Scrapheap Challenge book, or occasionally snippets from Cathy Rogers or Robert Llewellyn.

Anyway, back on topic

[Speedy1]

Ok so it's not 90cc ....

this would be an example of a junk yard special
a "quick and dirty"
most of the imagineering & primary fab work is me (plaid jacket in the video)
electrics are all Thunderstruck motors
front half of the frame, forks came from a heap O defunked electric motorcycles (EMB brand)
rear axle, tire and back half hacked from a junior dragster
2 AC motors for the drive (are stock items at Thunderstruck motors)
batteries were sponsored
weighs in at 290 pounds

tank and seat shaped from recycled foam, covered with stretch fabric
corogated plastic body panels
recycled front fairing

best run so far is 110 mph in the quarter
a record in it's voltage class (120v)

only one other electric bike that is quicker, it runs at 384 volts


http://link.brightcove.com/services/...ctid1432753810


http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/records.htm

[Speedy1]

here is an interesting solution to devolop:

http://www.ttxgp.com/

wish I could give it a go
if only it wasn't so darn far from California

[GORDON STREETER]

Its easy to say that in hindsight, but I've always thought the same !
Most of those sets look like my workshop

[Al Weyman]

Well I got two even more direct feedbacks from coincidently two different friends, one was one of the Harley bikers teams that included hairy biker Bowser the copper and were on quite a few times and one was ex-Camaro racer Ellis Bergman who competed in an international event over the overside of the pond, his task to build a Snow mobile. Well they both said the same thing, 24hrs in TV land is more like a week and infact Ellis and his men got so peed off with it when it ws dragging out towards a week they were caught on camera/mike plotting against the show so they could get home as they had finished and got fed up hanging around for the others to complete (ever noticed that no team has ever missed the deadline!). The bottom line was the producers saw to it the renegades lost although they had the better machine and finished far earlier.

[dtype38]

It wouldn't be too bad if this sort of thing was just confined to entertainment programmes. Sadly it applies to news programmes as well. Just a small example was when I was part of a record attempt for "duration of a continuous game of cards" and the local news channel came down to film the record being broken. We were asked to draft in extra friends to make it look like a bigger event, then rehearse the moment the record was broken a few times, then do at least four takes of the actual moment... while all the time trying to carry on the card game! The news people weren't at all concerned about the actual record, just a good looking snip for the evening news.

Sorry, this is waaaay off topic.... interesting though.

[JohnD]

As the Spitfire Aces have appeared in two; TWO! Scrapheap challenges..........Well, the ShC Roadshows actually..... I can confirm from talking to the crew what dtype and Al say. It IS somewhat a set-up with the 'scrapheap' seeded with suitable bits, and it takes more than two days! And 'bodgingtime' is allowed, to make sure that the things do work, and won't cut off your head, on recording day. But after that it is down to the teams to ask for what scrap and tools they want.

By the way, watch out for Ace Vinny in the forthcoming new ShC series, which has a new format. Two teams build their machines before the day, then the winner goes head to head with the House team that does build theirs on the spot. For each episode, the Home Team gets a guest member, and Vinny is representing the Aces!

John

You don't belive me? http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_gr-B_rCNg