Illien blames Montoya

Marbot · 12 Jan 2006, 17:40 (Ref:1499999)

Mario Illien pulls no punches!http://www.f1racing.net/en/news.php?newsID=107019

Sodemo · 12 Jan 2006, 18:45 (Ref:1500038)

Can't really argue there, 2005 was a bad bad season for Montoya, despite his race win at Silverstone.

As a fan of Montoya, i'd love to see him challenge for the title in 2006, but I don't think he has a chance, for one, I think Kimi is faster, and two, I hear the Merc engines are going to be terrible, down on power, and unreliable.

**Born Racer** · 12 Jan 2006, 19:37 (Ref:1500061)

No, I haven't done the maths, but I reckon Ilmor cost Mclaren more points in 2005 (including all those races where Raikkonen took a 10-place penalty) than Montoya lost through his own mistakes. He may have lost more points than he should have at Istanbul, but Spa for instance wasn't necessarily his fault.

Trying to deflect the emphasis away from a poor reliability record methinks.

Mekola · 12 Jan 2006, 19:44 (Ref:1500067)

That's unfair IMHO. Montoya scored more points than Fisichella and won the battle for the best #2 team driver of 2005 season.

maltafan · 12 Jan 2006, 19:45 (Ref:1500069)

I do not think Montoya is to blame for all points lost. I think they should first look at the disqualification they had, by letting him out of the pits with red lights in the pit lane. I think Montoya has matured a lot this season, although he has some more to go to reach Alonso's maturity.

I think, such a statement can only create tension between the two.

dcp2685 · 12 Jan 2006, 19:57 (Ref:1500078)

I don't think the comments are justified. He bagged 3 race wins once he got the car under his belt. Everyone said he's turn it on during the 2nd half and he did. Just looking post US Grix.

3 wins
1-2nd place
1-3rd place
3 DNFs (Engine, Hydrolics, driveshaft)
1 tangle w/ Pizzonia (Clearly not his fault)
1 tangle into the wall (IIRC he was making a pass on Villenuve who pushed him into the grass. Correct me if i'm wrong)

Yup all Montoya's fault.

Knowlesy · 12 Jan 2006, 19:59 (Ref:1500082)

Lovely blame culture there.

What a total jerk. Ron Dennis said some very nice words about Montoya in Motorsport News the other day that accurately reflected his season. It wasn't Montoya's best season, everyone knows that, but he did alright considering. And he ended the year in confident fashion, a match for Kimi.

Perhaps Ilien can now turn his attentions to Ilmors frankly pathetic reliability and the rumours of yet more impending engine dramas this season.

maltafan · 12 Jan 2006, 20:08 (Ref:1500094)

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcp2685

I don't think the comments are justified. He bagged 3 race wins once he got the car under his belt. Everyone said he's turn it on during the 2nd half and he did. Just looking post US Grix.

3 wins
1-2nd place
1-3rd place
3 DNFs (Engine, Hydrolics, driveshaft)
1 tangle w/ Pizzonia (Clearly not his fault)
1 tangle into the wall (IIRC he was making a pass on Villenuve who pushed him into the grass. Correct me if i'm wrong)

Yup all Montoya's fault.

... and you forgot the manhole incident too!!

Kirk · 12 Jan 2006, 20:17 (Ref:1500107)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mekola

That's unfair IMHO. Montoya scored more points than Fisichella and won the battle for the best #2 team driver of 2005 season.

Perhaps so, but Fisi was arguably the leader in underperfoming last year after his initial win. Another year like that and he could be out of F1 (however I don't think it will happen).

Of course JPM cannot be blamed for all of his misfortune. That water drain incident was quite incredulous, but his high risk driving habits cost him and his team. Plus the fact that he is so stubborn and doesn't have it in him to take some of the blame, exacerbates the situation in my view.

Gt_R · 13 Jan 2006, 02:50 (Ref:1500312)

Mario is wrong and right.

Similar to Ron's blaming of both drivers for the lost championship, Mario should also look back at how Mclaren and Ilmor lost the championship with fragile reliability as well as not getting the car up to speed right from the first race.

So to lay the blame flatly on one or two drivers isn't accurate.

That's not to say that the drivers are free of blame. In this case of Montoya, he did make a bit too many errors which proved costly and shouldn't have occured for a person of his experience. And for all his good performance, i believe it is expected from him.

Anyway, the 05 season IS lost. They should get a grip on it and move on to the next with the lessons learnt. Blaming isn't going to do each other any good.

senna12 · 13 Jan 2006, 04:03 (Ref:1500320)

Comments like those made by Illien can be de-stabilizing for sure, particularly if they are only somewhat justified, and spoken by someone who should be accepting some of the blame himself. I would tell JP to take the high road at this point, while having a little word with Ron behind closed doors.

Nicholosophy · 13 Jan 2006, 07:24 (Ref:1500346)

Merc bought out Ilien's share of the deal did they not?

So really he's out of it now, and should just get on with his new venture.

ActiveMS · 13 Jan 2006, 08:57 (Ref:1500375)

I think he was trying to make a point that as far as he's concerned the DNFs were not due to bad engine manufacturing or design. I seem to remember all "engine related" DNF's were either poor prep or ancillary failure? Add a bit of suspension failure due to extreme tyre problem, driveshaft failure and a bit of dodgy driving...voilla.

I'll give him half credit on Monty....he was pretty poor up until he got the car by the scruff of the neck.....it just took longer than most would expect from this level of driver (and salary!).

Compared with his team mate, monty should be back in karts....or singing the JCB song......flame on.

Gt_R · 13 Jan 2006, 09:43 (Ref:1500387)

Another thing is that there are words that with Mercedes taking control of Ilmor, there is a chance that Mario is looking for partner to start another engine specialist company of sorts, in time for 2008 where the rules would help smaller teams (and suppliers).

A rumour, but it may justify why Mario need to shift the blame away from the credibility of 'his' engines.

steve_r · 13 Jan 2006, 10:16 (Ref:1500402)

Hang on a minute - How many times did Kimi have compromised qualifying due to the Mercedes Engine devolping a fault prior to qualifying?

People in glass houses...

climb · 13 Jan 2006, 10:21 (Ref:1500406)

I think Ilien is right when referring to the particular stupidity of some JPM's mistakes; then an engine failure is bad too, but it's problem that can happen.

Using tennis vocabulary, JPM's blunders were "non-forced errors"

JohnSSC · 13 Jan 2006, 10:37 (Ref:1500414)

I agree that JPM made mistakes, as did Kimi. But as Steve r pointed out, how many starting places did Mc drivers have to make up due to engine changes?

It takes a team effort to win the WCC/WDC, and it takes a team effort to lose them!

**chunterer** · 13 Jan 2006, 13:30 (Ref:1500481)

Yeah it smacks a little of 'passing the buck' for me.

Sure JPM didn't do some things that he should've but the Ilmor designed engine let down Kimi, the teams main focus for the championship far more it's fair to say.

I wouldn't be surprised if Mario's quotes are several months old and have been published now because the publication was short on copy!

Lets see what 06 brings for the drivers and the engines - it's a fairly crucial year for all concerned isn't it?

karimbo · 13 Jan 2006, 16:05 (Ref:1500572)

Mister Illien should look at how many times his engine failed McLaren.

That would give him a good clue why McLaren lost both titles.

BootsOntheSide · 13 Jan 2006, 16:48 (Ref:1500590)

From France onwards, JPM's mistakes only cost the team 2 points in Belgium and 2 at Hockenheim (Mercedes cost McLaren 8 points at that race). Even at that point he wasn't 100% fit, which probably explains why he didn't remember the red light rule in Canada (it doesn't excuse everybody else in the team forgetting about it). That only leaves Monaco, which perhaps cost the team 4 points - so that's 8 in total, comparable to Kimi. Mario is trying to pass the buck and deflect concern away from the failure of the 2004 engine, and the apparent problems of the 2006 engine. Simple truth is that Paul Morgan was the brains at the team, Mario is comparatively inept and has proved it year after year.

foreversideways · 13 Jan 2006, 18:01 (Ref:1500631)

Quote:

Originally Posted by karimbo

Mister Illien should look at how many times his engine failed McLaren.

That would give him a good clue why McLaren lost both titles.

Exactly. about as reliable as a new Mercedes.

chillibowl · 13 Jan 2006, 20:53 (Ref:1500772)

there certainly seems to be a lot of blame going around behind the not so closed doors of Woking these days.

if this was any other sport this would be where the team self-destructs.

mooneyda · 15 Jan 2006, 16:18 (Ref:1501725)

Sounds to me like Mario Illien is looking for someone to blame , even before his new V8's underperform in '06....

Surely using the old fine art of the "power of suggestion" in pre-season- and when Iilmors engines underperfom in '06, people will already have the "lets blame Momtoya" attitude instilled in their heads!!

Nice work Mario!!

GeeRam · 27 Jan 2006, 09:22 (Ref:1509959)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

Simple truth is that Paul Morgan was the brains at the team, Mario is comparatively inept and has proved it year after year.

How true.

Also, no surprise to see JPM comments over the last day or so. He's making no secret of that fact that as Ron didn't take up his option on his services in December he's regards himself as a free agent and is talking to other teams about 2007.
So, where will Monty end up......replacing JV at BMW? Or replacing Alonso at Renault if they don't quit? Outside bet would be RBR, maybe because of the Newey factor?

N I Tram · 27 Jan 2006, 12:19 (Ref:1510072)

Renault can't quit for 2007, as they're tied in by the Concord agreement. However, they can and may for 2008, and JPM wouldn't join them for 1 season. BMW would not be competitive for 2007, so his first choice might be Toyota if they have a vacancy.

Completely true that Mario is the main person at fault for McLaren's lack of a title in recent years - the whole decline of the team can be traced back to Paul's death.

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