Legacy F1 Drivers - something to offer in their 40s?

[darcym]

Do you think recently retired, or about to retire F1 drivers are a good catch for growing teams ?

People like Coulthard/Truli/Rubens/Schumacher (just examples)

Mercedes obvsiouly believe Schumacher has something to offer in terms of race ability/marketing/development

Same for Williams - although less on the marketing if the rumours are to be believed.

they may have lost a 10th (or may not) but in terms of development and building a team they seem quite invaluable for the up and comings, such as Virgin, Lotus, Sauber, Force India etc......

I see a lot of these teams with two younger drivers with no / little F1 experience, even people like Sutil who have been in F1 for a good few years now, have never had an experienced hand to pick up the good habits from, see how they behave etc.

Are these teams missing out ?(I know money counts for a lot)

[Razzzor]

In my opinion a team should be good enough with good people in the correct positions so that it doesn't matter who they have driving for them. It shouldn't be left to the driver to build the team up.

The driver really just needs a great technical understanding to assist in setting the car up. If they do need someone experienced, then maybe the rest of the team isn't good enough?

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Razzzor

In my opinion a team should be good enough with good people in the correct positions so that it doesn't matter who they have driving for them. It shouldn't be left to the driver to build the team up.

The driver really just needs a great technical understanding to assist in setting the car up. If they do need someone experienced, then maybe the rest of the team isn't good enough?

This is the Williams philosophy - which has worked well has it not?

Pay drivers it is then.

For my own 10c worth, I think that having a good driver is vital to a team's success - Williams and Toyota spring to mind.


Coulthard did a massive amount of work at RBR.
Schumacher at Ferrari.
Hill at Williams testing and driving.
Lauda at Ferrari.
Scheckter at Ferrari.
Scheckter at Wolf
Fittipaldi at McLaren.
Andretti at Lotus.
Stewart at Tyrrel.

[Flavio Galtieri]

Originally Posted by wnut

This is the Williams philosophy - which has worked well has it not?

Pay drivers it is then.

For my own 10c worth, I think that having a good driver is vital to a team's success - Williams and Toyota spring to mind.


Coulthard did a massive amount of work at RBR.
Schumacher at Ferrari.
Hill at Williams testing and driving.
Lauda at Ferrari.
Scheckter at Ferrari.
Scheckter at Wolf
Fittipaldi at McLaren.
Andretti at Lotus.
Stewart at Tyrrel.

All true, but these days life is very different isn't it?

Technology has moved on massively in design terms and testing is seriously limited.

What you need now is not only a fast driver on the track but someone comfortable with simulators, a driver that can react on a simulator JUST as he would on the track and who believes in the technology. That's what will help the engineers today and that's what will make a difference.

Add to that the fact you have to pay the older drivers for their past (often rare) glories, whereas a young driver may well enjoy substancial backing and I think I know which way I would go.

[Born Racer]

They offer defensive driving: the Trulli Train, the Schumacher Snake, etc.

[3point0v8]

Originally Posted by Flavio Galtieri

the fact you have to pay the older drivers for their past (often rare) glories, whereas a young driver may well enjoy substancial backing and I think I know which way I would go.

I think this is what it's all about - pay drivers.

And even the bigger teams would take a hit if younger drivers weren't being given a chance in the lower teams - that bit harder to spot new talent.

[valet_dave]

Surely once you reach your 40's, it's time to give someone else a chance, rather than continue to nurture an ego or an over flowing bank balance.

Maybe they can set up a retirement village for F1 drivers where they can mentor new blood, or relax in an armchair and provide a commentary on how much harder their racing days were before they were unfairly dismissed.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by valet_dave

Surely once you reach your 40's, it's time to give someone else a chance, rather than continue to nurture an ego or an over flowing bank balance.

Maybe they can set up a retirement village for F1 drivers where they can mentor new blood, or relax in an armchair and provide a commentary on how much harder their racing days were before they were unfairly dismissed.

Or they could continue to race and blow off a lot of never will be anythings with no talent and big bank balances!

[Ralf's Girl]

Originally Posted by darcym

Do you think recently retired, or about to retire F1 drivers are a good catch for growing teams ?

People like Coulthard/Truli/Rubens/Schumacher (just examples)

Depends on the driver, doesn't it? Schumacher, whilst obviously not as quick as he used to be (especially when up against what is generally recognised as tougher competition than he faced 10 years ago), is presumably still very technically adept and good at giving feedback to his team, not to mention being hugely marketable. A Trulli type driver, on the other hand...well, I'm not really sure what he's offering Lotus. They seem to be happy to boot him out of the car when it suits them, so how valuable is he really?

I would like to see more young drivers given a shot, as it doesn't seem like there will be many openings for them next season. That's not to say that a driver should just be kicked out when he hits his late thirties and replaced with a 21-year-old with a fat wallet, but I would like to see teams take a bit more of a risk when it comes to their driver line-up. Lotus, for example, surely couldn't be hurt that badly if they got rid of Trulli and paired a quick young driver with Kovalainen, who surely has more than enough experience to offset whatever they lose with Trulli.

[LotusF1]

Bring back Mansell at RBR.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by LotusF1

Bring back Mansell at RBR.

In equal machinery he would outqualify more than half the grid.

[JamesH]

Originally Posted by valet_dave

Surely once you reach your 40's, it's time to give someone else a chance, rather than continue to nurture an ego or an over flowing bank balance.

Maybe they can set up a retirement village for F1 drivers where they can mentor new blood, or relax in an armchair and provide a commentary on how much harder their racing days were before they were unfairly dismissed.

On the other hand, perhaps they like racing F1 cars, which is why they keep doing it. Racing is rather addictive. As shown by how many F1 drivers still compete in other areas.

[deeks6]

Originally Posted by wnut

In equal machinery he would outqualify more than half the grid.

No, but he would take up more than half the car.

[Mr V]

If i owned a team and given the choice between a 42 year old Schumacher and a 23 year old Vettel i'd go for the Vettel option everytime.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Mr V

If i owned a team and given the choice between a 42 year old Schumacher and a 23 year old Vettel i'd go for the Vettel option everytime.

As no doubt many others would. But there aren't too many 'Vettel's' out there at the moment.

Then you have to ask yourself: How well would Schumacher be going in a Red Bull? I have no doubts that has the Mercedes gets better, then so will Schumacher. And this seems to be the case, just lately.

[formerf1champ]

It's no big deal to have a driver in his late 30s+. Historically, in motorsport, drivers have had their professional careers/success later in life than in other sports and there's a wider period of time to have a professional career than in other sports.

The choosing/preference of younger drivers has only occurred this past decade and is also a bit hit and miss. A trait I think is most valuable a driver can bring to a team is to be a leader within it (ideally a natural one, and not even a driving trait as well) and be able to pull the team/organisation up if needed.

What I mean by that is with their natural stengths and weaknesses, if they were transferred to a team/ball sport, Could this guy captain a team? Or would he even be one of the leaders of the team? Comparing Button and Hamilton if they were Quarterbacks for example, Hamilton would make a lot of big plays but make a lot dumb ones as well, Button wouldn't have the flair/courage of Hamilton, but at the same time he wouldn't stuff up the offense.

I hope you understand what I'm trying to say. A lot of the leading drivers from pre-'00s, even pre-mid'90s, come across to me as being a natural leader or have a lot of those qualities, regardless of their relative driving/racing strengths. Drivers from the past who have won the WDC or a race for the first time and debuts have been, typically, older than the common driver in the past decade, but drivers nowadays wouldn't be considered better and I think a leadership quality is something that is missing and only comes with age/experience (compare Vettel/Hamilton with pre-'00 champs).

Feel free to troll me if you have no idea what I'm talking about.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by Marbot

Then you have to ask yourself: How well would Schumacher be going in a Red Bull? I have no doubts that has the Mercedes gets better, then so will Schumacher. And this seems to be the case, just lately.

Maybe, but then the question that could be asked is, how much better would the Merc be going with Vettel/Button/Alonso in it?

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Mr V

Maybe, but then the question that could be asked is, how much better would the Merc be going with Vettel/Button/Alonso in it?

The same thing is happening to Valentino Rossi in MotoGP as is happening to Michael Schumacher in F1. They are both suffering from a terminal lack of testing due to the new testing regulations in both series. Both are very good at getting the best out of what they have if they can finely tune it. But both are currently being beaten by lesser team mates using identical machinery, and neither the Ducati nor the Mercedes are likely to win a race.

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by Marbot

But both are currently being beaten by lesser team mates using identical machinery, and neither the Ducati nor the Mercedes are likely to win a race.

I don't think that Nico is a lesser driver than Michael now.

[strider]

Originally Posted by wnut

In equal machinery he would outqualify more than half the grid.

He didn't manage too well against Hakkinen the last time he attempted a comeback, and he's now 58, not in his 40s.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Mr V

I don't think that Nico is a lesser driver than Michael now.

I certainly think that Rosberg should not be underestimated. But at the same time I believe that Schumacher, given a few thousand kilometres of proper track testing, would blow the doors off anyone.

[Flavio Galtieri]

Originally Posted by Marbot

I certainly think that Rosberg should not be underestimated. But at the same time I believe that Schumacher, given a few thousand kilometres of proper track testing, would blow the doors off anyone.

I think that is the problem. There isn't any way the old days of gratuitous testing are coming back. Pounding round and around to "fine tune" a setup in a real car is just not cost efficient and hardly fits with an image of an environmentally friendly sport.

Just as with fighter pilots, who also used to practice their art with real aeroplanes, simulation is key now. What I would want is a driver happy with the simulator, who believes in it (accepts the cues) and is able to progress development on the car with the technology. Not all drivers are happy in that environment but personally I expect you are less likely to get a "legacy" driver who can cope with this change than a relative newcomer who is used to it. Just a hunch.....

[wnut]

Originally Posted by strider

He didn't manage too well against Hakkinen the last time he attempted a comeback, and he's now 58, not in his 40s.

Hakkinen was destined to be a WDC, half the current grid, probably not WDC material.

The remark was tongue in cheek, however it referred to the back half of the grid and not the front half!

Karthikayan v Mansell in equal machinery?

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by Marbot

I certainly think that Rosberg should not be underestimated. But at the same time I believe that Schumacher, given a few thousand kilometres of proper track testing, would blow the doors off anyone.

Michael has now had 20 odd races since his come back, testing can no longer be used as an excuse. And there is no way that he'd blow the doors off an Alonso/Vettel etc.

As Michael himself said, a 25 year old Schumacher was better than a 42 year old Schumacher

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Mr V

Maybe, but then the question that could be asked is, how much better would the Merc be going with Vettel/Button/Alonso in it?

Currently I'd rate Schumacher behind Vettel and Alonso, but ahead of Button, I believe he would out qualify Button, and out race him.