Mosely's Legacy

[Alan Cherry]

Ok Gents ( and ladies )
Now that it looks like he is finally going (Think Mr Ecclestone may have more to do with it tha we know) What legacy will be left behind ? Some say that he's done a lot for safety, but in my view he will be remembered as an egotistical meglamaniac who really screwed Gp racing.
His outstanding achievments are - Whilst trying to make GP racing cost less - KERS - a great white elephant that probably cost the teams £100m, and the greatest one - selling the comercial rights to GP racing to his mate. £100m I believe - his mate then sold them on to CVC resulting in CVC requiring enough money every year to service a 1bn debt - how much is that costing GP racing ? It means that the races have to go to whoever will pay ridiculous amounts to sustain the loans, where nobody is interested in racing, while some great circuits that could fill the grandstands are denied a race ! - Of course, I could be wrong about this - any other views ?

[johntt]

He has made great strides in improving safety in the sport, Kubica's crash in Montreal two years ago is testament to that.

Other than that, I can't think of anything else positive about Max, and we can all list what he's done wrong.

[Mulsanne Bleu]

All I can think of is that he broke through the French stranglehold...before his time, any series had to be dominated by the French (rallying, sportscar racing, etc), if not, FISA fixed rules to allow them to dominate. When Mosely came in,there was less of that

[Sodemo]

Tarmac run off...

[VIVA GT]

This thread is becoming a bit like Monty Python "What have the Romans ever done for us?" (OK, apart from tarmac run-offs and removing the French stranglehold etc, what has Max Mosley actually done for us?).

[jab]

That sounds like it could be turned into a really bad retrospective biography

"What have Max Mosley ever done for us?" by Mark Blundell

[chunterer]

Like him or not he has has a tremendous impact on the governance of International Motorsport and other automotive elements besides.

He was an incredibly cohesive force after Imola 1994 in my belief and postively urged the reformation of the GPDA, which whilst an excellent and much needed group, hitherto had been a bit of a thorn in the side of F1 management. F1 was in deep shock and Mosley needed to react quickly some will say the measures taken went too far and were a bit knee jerk but he managed to put some very positive spin on it all.

I think he has always tried to organise/introduce/change rules and regs for the good of the sport as a whole in the face of most people's strong beliefs that he was simply a puppet of Bernie.

Latterly his thinking about how to change F1 and motorsport in general has been sound but the timing of execution perhaps not so.

Overall he perhaps carried on in the job too long as maybe it would be better in future to have a compulsory re-election for the Presidency every 4-5 years.

[Mulsanne Bleu]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

This thread is becoming a bit like Monty Python "What have the Romans ever done for us?" (OK, apart from tarmac run-offs and removing the French stranglehold etc, what has Max Mosley actually done for us?).

He also gave F1 fans a reason to buy News of the World and something that have been missing to at least 10 years, or at least by a Tory MP - Dungeon capers

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by chunterer

......... as maybe it would be better in future to have a compulsory re-election for the Presidency every 4-5 years.

There is already that provision in force.Mosley would have to stand for re-election in October because his current term in office is up.

[Gingers4Justice]

Mosley destroyed Sportscar racing which has taken many years to recover - infact, still rocovering. Touring Cars are now just for four-door family Euro-boxes with hair dryers for engines. There are countless dull, single seater, one make F1 feeder series'. Word Rallying continues to implode, and all the cars sound the same. Staying within the racing world and outside F1, he's been awful in terms of the competitive side.

F1? 20 cars parade for an hour and a half round concrete-dromes infront of 100 people in countries which haven't a clue about what F1 is all about. We don't know what the result is when the race has finished. The teams and the FIA row for months and months, scandal to scandal.

Look at it that way, and he's been awful. So much for a 'legacy'

However, not a single driver has been killed in F1 in my lifetime, under his leadership. No one has broken a bone since 2000. The F1 drivers put there lives at more risk by driving away from the GP on public roads in their road-going cars with about a fifth of the power.

However, for many, there's only one thing he'll be remembered for...

[Mr V]

He's done alot for the safety of motorsport, but then, so did Jackie Stewart.

Personally, i can't wait to see the back of Max and his bully boy tactics.

[csirl]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

Mosley destroyed Sportscar racing which has taken many years to recover - infact, still rocovering. Touring Cars are now just for four-door family Euro-boxes with hair dryers for engines. There are countless dull, single seater, one make F1 feeder series'. Word Rallying continues to implode, and all the cars sound the same. Staying within the racing world and outside F1, he's been awful in terms of the competitive side.

F1? 20 cars parade for an hour and a half round concrete-dromes infront of 100 people in countries which haven't a clue about what F1 is all about. We don't know what the result is when the race has finished. The teams and the FIA row for months and months, scandal to scandal.

Look at it that way, and he's been awful. So much for a 'legacy'

However, not a single driver has been killed in F1 in my lifetime, under his leadership. No one has broken a bone since 2000. The F1 drivers put there lives at more risk by driving away from the GP on public roads in their road-going cars with about a fifth of the power.

However, for many, there's only one thing he'll be remembered for...

I wouldnt credit him with the safety advances. Just because he happened to be President when they were introduced, doesnt mean that they are down to him. My recollection is that, excuse the pun, the drivers themselves have been the driving force behind improving safety - the GPDA's tough stance on unsafe circuits coupled with the Senna incident highlighting safety deficits.

His F1 legacy is that when he took over, F1 had 30+ cars on the grid from multiple countries. Now, they are stuggling to put 20 competitive cars on the grid and most of the non-UK F1 teams have been wiped out. Is it coincidental, given his families political connections, that the "foreign" teams have suffered most under his watch?

[JamesH]

On the other hand, he has tried in the last year to reduce the ridiculous costs of F1 to entice more teams in, and the teams have effectively stopped him dead in his tracks.

Don't blame Max for that, the teams are just as much to blame for the spiraling costs (and therefor reduced number of entries).

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by csirl

I wouldnt credit him with the safety advances.

I would,and so would many others.It's a 'fact' really.

F1 teams in general don't want to add unnecessary weight to their cars if it would affect their performance.Mosley,on many occasions,fought against the teams to have safety devices put on the cars.

Originally Posted by csirl

: Is it coincidental, given his families political connections, that the "foreign" teams have suffered most under his watch?

Foreign as in Italian ?

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by Marbot

I would,and so would many others.It's a 'fact' really.

F1 teams in general don't want to add unnecessary weight to their cars if it would affect their performance.Mosley,on many occasions,fought against the teams to have safety devices put on the cars.

Nope, its not a fact. Attributing the advances in safety in Formula One to Max Mosely is simply wrong. Collectively the governing body, the teams and the race organizers/tracks have been progressively improving safety since Jackie Stewart implored them to in the early 1970s. Safety had been improving before Max and it will continue to improve after he's gone.

Putting safety to one side at the moment, the governance of motorsport is in complete disarray right now, from Formula One through Karting. Arguably the karting problems are the most grave of all, because it is where the vast majority of paid up FIA members 'live' and its the entrypoint for most competitors into motorsport. Whoever replaces Max will have their work cut out for them as the FIA needs root and branch surgery to be fit for purpose going forward.

All I can say about Max is - take your underpants and whip with you... and shut the door on your way out !

[Mulsanne Bleu]

He is credited for making Supertouring stupidly expensive, noticed how it came from being cars that you can see at the local Tesco to something of a Max Power car-masturbation within the other half of the dacade

also he is credited for being the ******* father of the WRC class, which made it very much privateer unfriendly, though it was supposed to be cheaper than Group A

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by davyboy

Nope, its not a fact.

He seems to be getting a lot of credit for doing nothing then !

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by Marbot

He seems to be getting a lot of credit for doing nothing then !

Well that just says more about the people giving the credit I guess.

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by WLLRNNN

He is credited for making Supertouring stupidly expensive, noticed how it came from being cars that you can see at the local Tesco to something of a Max Power car-masturbation within the other half of the dacade

also he is credited for being the ******* father of the WRC class, which made it very much privateer unfriendly, though it was supposed to be cheaper than Group A

As I said.

And what he did to Group C was tragic. Shameful.

[nea]

Mosely's legacy should have been a good one. That said, he should have resigned when he first said that he was going too, and even then his legacy was becoming less impressive.

We shouldn't forget the good Mosely has done for F1 over the years. His pushing for higher safety standards arguably being the most important thing he has acheived. Burti (Spa '01), Brundle (Melbourne '96), Kubica Montreál '07) and many others have escaped virtually unscathed from crashes that could have seriously injured them or worse.

The impact tests, wheel tethers, raised cockpit sides and "bullet proofing" of the tubs were all massively important safety regulations that have without doubt saved many drivers.

However, not all of the changes he's made in the name of safety were as good as that. Reducing engine capacity and cylinders was a crime in my books and I have always been of the opinion that teams should be free to choose the engine format they wish to use, be it V8, V10, V12 or W12 (sorry, I saw the Life LC90 at Goodwood a few weeks ago!).

Making the cars narrow track instantly ruined a classic look and to me, F1 cars have looked pretty crap ever since then. Grooved tyres were horrendous and had no place in F1.

Mosely's "cost cutting", while in theory a great idea, has turned out to be a complete fiasco. Engine freezes take away alot of the great battles we'd seen in the early 00's, with BMW producing the most powerful engine but Ferrari having a better chassis. And don't even get me started on KERS.....

Whilst Mosely has every right to a private life, he should have been aware that he is a public figure and therefore should have been a little more careful when chosing his extra curricular activities. Not his finest hour and it didn't make F1 look good as a result.

Nor does his constant bully boy tactics. In the last few seasons, Mosely and the FIA have lost pretty much all credibility through their petty infighting, penalties, threats and inconsistant rulings. As the President of the FIA, Mosely should have made sure that none of this happened as it brings F1 into disrepute. Granted, F1 is getting alot more collumn inches lately, but it's hardly for the right reasons now is it?

Mosely should scamper off with his whip between his legs and take what little credibilty and dignity he has left. You'll be remembered (perhaps unfairly) for the wrong reasons.

[fourWheelDrift]

Over recent decades there has been a huge change in attitudes to risk in the western world. Accidental severe trauma or death become more unusual and unacceptable even as a result of people taking a risk that they consider worthwhile or unavoidable. This has been driven by more rigorous safety systems, a wealthier (developed) world and technological advances. The trend is self reinforcing in that the rarer these events are the more it becomes unacceptable to expose people to risk. This is nothing to do with motorsport but applies across the whole of society.

The fact that motorsport has become safer is largely a result of these social trends feeding through into the sport. Max might as well take credit for the weather which also just happened on his watch.

That's not to take anythibg away from the people who work for safety but they were only able to succeed because the time was right.

[davyboy]

Amen fourWheelDrift... you're spot on.

[Marbot]

At the end of the day Mosley will get his 'budget cap' (in all but name),and a few new teams to keep the interest going when the likes of Renault,Toyota and BMW decide to bugger off.It could have been better,but it could have been a whole lot worse.It will be sad when he's gone and we've got no one to blame any more.But here's to that brave new world of F1,because it can't get any worse can it ! ?

[Alan Cherry]

Nobody seems particularly bothered by the fact that he sold the commercial rights to F1 racing for the next 100 years, and that now means that CVC have to make enough money to service a 1bn debt before any other money can be made in GP racing.
Any bankers out there care to comment on how much that costs each year from the F1 pot ? - That plus all Mr Ecclestones companies hat have to make money each year.
I think his legacy will be that he presided over F1 when it grew in popularity from a minor sport to a Global business that left the sport behind, The money required to service the business will surely kill it some time in the future when it loses its novelty appeal to the countries that can put up the money at present. I just hope there's enough left of the teams, and the traditional countries circuits to pick up the pieces when it does all go t*** up.
I think it will probably survive until Bernie turns his toes up !

[JeremySmith]

I would like to take this opportunity to point to the positive side of Mr Max Mosley and all he has done to help improve safety while piloting a F1 car...