Rallying terms and classes

[P.Cummins]

Could someone give me a "Rallying term" tutor. Just key words and what they mean, like:

Homoglotated- ?

R.H.D/L.H.D- Right hand drive/Left hand drive

And also the main rallying classes in the British Isles.

I know Gp N, Gp A and Gp B (9-14 modofied).

I just get confused after that. Those who know me from other forums are probably saying "...Paddy, not again with the rally class threads....."

Sorry, just want to make sure.

I still dont understand historics/classics so a little help please.

Thanks in advance

[Anuauto]

Homologation is a minefield and in Eurospeak is used in non-motorsport contexts too. In current rallying it means enough exact standard cars have been built for it to be "recognised" by FISA in its "Appendix J" for International competition. I dont really keep up these days but the original GpA & N quantity was 5000, now I think 2500. Gp N,A&B was introduced in 1982, replacing Gp1,2,3,4 etc (and effectively killing off a lot of UK club-spec rally cars being eligible for internationals).
When "Group B" is used to describe classes in UK national and lower level rallying, it is effectively "free formula" or club level/MSA Stage Regs - anything not in GpN&A - and NOT the original FISA GpB definition. (The original FISA Group B was not confined to "supercars" either - all manner of vehicles were at one time homologated in it).
Historic cars are up to end of 1967, Post Historic cars from there to end 74 and Classic there to end 81 (end 81 being when FISA Appendix J changed-see above). This was going to be retitled "Historic1,2&3" but doesnt seem to have happened.
Confused?....you soon will be....
Any specific questions, just ask.

[P.Cummins]

OK, thanks, but I have to admit that I am indeed confused

[Cryos]

ok ok :P

Group A:

The Peak Performance of that car is attained in Group A, however must conform to rules




Group B:

Extreamly Fast Cars, i.e metro 6r4's



Group N:



A Broader Definition, can conform standard cars.

[P.Cummins]

Yes, thanks rxie but thats the part I know.
The part I am confused with is when it comes to Historics/Classics. ie, the are split into classes of B1, B2, C2, C3, D4...etc
And what I would like is the eligibility of each car for them classes. I understand Historics, Post-Historics and Classics but not the smaller sub-classes for them.

Also, I'd like to know about the new Junior class for this year. Split into J1 and J2.

And finally, classes 15 and 16. Are they Gp A, N or B? And what is the eligibility? AN example of class 15 is David McNulty, Joe McHugh and Paul McCann!
Do you understand what I'm on about?

[Anuauto]

If you have special classes in Ireland, cant help. For UK "historics" have a look at the HRCR web site. It would be useful to be able to say look at the MSA web site for the vehicle regulations in the "Blue Book" but, unlike the FIA, they do not make it acccessible to those who dont already have a competition licence (and who thus have the book anyway....).
As already mentioned, FISA Group B was simply almost any car that had been built in quantities of 200 but not enough for Group N or A. Things like Metro 6R4s, Sport Quattros, T16s etc. were a very minor element of the total number of cars homologated in Group B (Skodas, MGB, Ford P100 Pickup - its a long long list - and a myth that it was just "supercars").
Its also a myth that Group N in its current form is remotely "showroom" spec cars. It now allows massive modifications and bears little resemblance to the original GpN introduced in 1982.

[P.Cummins]

Thanks anuauto all the same. About "showroom" cars:

I heard GpN cars being called "showroom" cars on a regular basis while watching on the limit Sports and wondered why? Thats been answered.
Soon enough, if GpN cars eventually modifiy so much, they will run in league with GpA cars and the GpN class will probably vanish. Hope not

[Cryos]

Pre historic i think is pre 1975, either standard or modified competition car, bolt in cages only as far as i can remember :P

[P.Cummins]

lol. Anything on classes B1, B2, C2, C3, D4, D5...etc?

[ss_collins]

Bear in mind a class B13 car can also be a WRC - ie on a BTRDA event. A7 is the old 'kit car' class foe maxi meganes / 106 maxis / Nissan Sunnies / Ford etc..

Its all about the spec of the car

[P.Cummins]

Yes, thanks collins, I understand all that.

Last time:

All I dont know is the sub-historics classes and classes 15 and 16 and the new Junior classes!

Also, class 22 and class 9A

[peespeed]

Paddy go have a read of this Motorsport Ireland Regulations there you'll find a bit on the classes and other rules

[Anuauto]

To clarify the A7 ref. by ss_collins (he had his finest hour in A7! but it seems to have put him off entering rallies since!):
A7 was 1601-2000cc Group A cars. The usual International classes following the switch in Appendix J in 1982 were the capacity splits at 1300(later 1400), 1600 and 2000 ie. N1,2,3,4, A5,6,7,8, B9,10,11,12.
Only much later when they started playing around with the standardised Intenational classes and things like the ridiculously-titled "Maxi Kit Cars" and "World Rally Cars" came along did the actual eligibility criteria change. Maxi Kit cars were Group A 2000cc fwd cars with less modification restrictions than proper GpA. They have now ended up in the same class, called A7, for national events.
Another variation that may be encountered is the use of the A5,6,7, class designation in events like the Barbados Rally to cover cars that were never homologated in Group A but could have been if homologation had been applied for (usually Japanese cars sold in the Americas but never sold in Europe).
It used to be so simple....

[chezza]

Finest hour in A7...hmmm not so sure about that one. I think the word crunch comes to mind if i'm on the right lines?!

[P.Cummins]

Thanks peespeed. Classes 1-15 I now understand. Nothing on class 16 though.

[scoop]

In the BHRC, the following classes apply:

Category 1 (historic) pre '68
B1 up to 1000cc
B2 1001-1300cc
B3 1301-1600cc (excl twin cams)
B4 1601-2000cc (incl twin cams, but not Porsche 911s)
B5 - over 2001cc and Porsche 911s

Category 2 (post-historic) '68-74
C1 up to 1300cc
C2 1301-1600cc (excl twin cams)
C3 1601-2000cc (incl twin cams)
C4 Over 2001cc
C5 All twin-cam multi-valve (BDAs, for instance)

Category 3 (classic) '75-81
D1 up to 1300cc
D2 1301-1600cc (excl twin cams)
D3 1601-2000cc (incl twin cams)
D4 Over 2000cc
D5 all twin-cam multi-valve (BDGs for instance)

OK?

[P.Cummins]

Thanks scoop but there is one thing.

That seems to be OK if you look at the entry list to the 2005 Galway rally but if you look at the 2004 Kilarney Historics Rally, things change. In that rally the historics classes are:

Historics- 1, 2, 3, 4, 5

Post Historics- 7, 8, 9, 10

Classics- 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18

Why is that?

Also, if all of the "D" classes are for Classics that means there was only one classic car in the Galway inter Rally. that ebing Adrian Kermode's 911.

[scoop]

P Cummins
Can't really answer for the way the Irish classes are run, as they do have a slightly different take on historics. The list I posted is definite for the BHRC, but other events (notably in Ireland) may well differ and I'm afraid I can't really answer that one!

[P.Cummins]

OK, thanks all the same.