3rd car ban for jordan

[chillibowl]

a couple of web sites www.f1.racing-live.com for one are reporting jordan have been banned from using a third car for the canadian gp. (which as i understand it is completly a fair call)
with his pace in practice today, which was pretty amazing considering he just got in the car today, shouldn't Montagny be racing now?

[maximus]

That link doesn't work. Seems an odd desicion to me but can anyone shed any light on it?

[GTRMagic]

Its Here too...

How do you stuff up using 2 extra sets of tyres??

[Logrence]

I don't see how a well-organised team could make that sort of mistake...strange. At least they'll save a bit of cash if they've not already posted the car.

[maximus]

Hmm, on reading that I agree with GTR magic. For me that is as bad as the BAR debacle.

[BootsOntheSide]

Trevor Carlin has claimed that the team gained no advantage from the mistake. On the surface he appears to be right - outright pace on a set of tyres is of little merit when they have to last so much longer than any practice set, and the procedure of trying different setups is unlikely to ruin or flat-spot every set of tyyres that quickly (although perhaps someone who was at the track or has seen any of free practice can confirm that Franck's driving wasn't too wild?)

However, having mroe chances to post a fast laptime has two obvious benefits - firstly, it increases the team's chance of being able to crucially beat the Minardis in qualifying (which surely has a lot of marketing value), and secondly the times posted make Franck look better, perhaps to soften people up for the chance of him replacing someone (be it Montiero or Fisichella - both have been rumoured) for Magny-Cours. On that basis. it's a fair punishment, and it will be interesting to see if they suffer for it at Montreal.

[Kicking-back]

Honest mistake, fair penalty.

Nothing to get heated over, I reckon.

[Dutton]

Reads like a stupid mistake, and one that shall not be made again.

It is unfortunate for Jordan, but rules are rules: it makes no difference if it was unintentional, it remains a breach and thus needs a punishment. It may have been delibrate I guess, but this seems unlikely.

Anyway, I think the punishment is proportionate to the crime, and thus hopefully not too much will be made of it.

I wonder who's going to do something bad next this year, then?

[StickShift]

Originally Posted by Logrence

I don't see how a well-organised team could make that sort of mistake...strange. At least they'll save a bit of cash if they've not already posted the car.

Wait wait wait... Midland/Jordan is well-organised?

[N I Tram]

There are some gullible people here. If they'd used 5 sets, I'd beleive that they simply mis-counted; if it had been the first race of the season, I'd beleive that they misunderstood or forgot the rule in the heat of the moment. Ultiamtely though, it reads as blatant cheting, probably to make Montagny look good as mentioned. It's distressing for a longtime Jordan fan like myself to have seen the team slump like this, and I'd love to see someone come in and buy Schanider out before he drags the team's heritage further through the mud with his poorly-thought-out and greed-centred ideas. Just like Malcolm Glazer really, he's clearly using teh team as a dumping ground for his debts.

[Logrence]

I think they would be a bit more subtle than blatantly break the rules if that was the case.

[Don K]

Originally Posted by Logrence

I think they would be a bit more subtle than blatantly break the rules if that was the case.

I heard a rumour that "somebody" might have suggested to Jordan to give Montagny extra tyres for the second race, possibly proposing tto pay the fine they would get.


I do not beleive that rumour.
As far as I understood, Montagny used the first session to get to know the car (and the team).
After that, it was not hard for him to be quicker than Monteiro and Karthikeyan (remember that the inexperienced Doornbos also was quicker).
However, Montagny might have helped Monteiro improve his time. I think that is the great benefit from having had Montagny in stead of Doornbos during this day.

---------------

As far as I understood, Doornbos was supposed to be back as friday test driver next race. In that case, this ban is very bad luck for Doornbos. If Jordan are planning to let Montagny race in France, I would expect them to give Montagny a second friday test. Which would mean that Montagny would be friday test driver at Indianapolis, and Doornbos would miss 3 friday tests in a row ...

[Silk Cut Jaguar]

I don't really understand how people could claim it was an honest mistake, one set of tyres you could maybe explain away as an over sight, but two? No way.

[Valve Bounce]

I didn't know Jordan could afford six sets of tyres, let alone a third car

[DKGandBH]

How is it that they even had that many tyres to use.
aren't the teams only given a specific number of tyres ?

DKGandBH

[Kicking-back]

Originally Posted by Don K

As far as I understood, Doornbos was supposed to be back as friday test driver next race. In that case, this ban is very bad luck for Doornbos. If Jordan are planning to let Montagny race in France, I would expect them to give Montagny a second friday test. Which would mean that Montagny would be friday test driver at Indianapolis, and Doornbos would miss 3 friday tests in a row ...

Montagny's not available for Indianapolis.

[mixxer]

How is it that they even had that many tyres to use.
aren't the teams only given a specific number of tyres ?

maybe they were his teammates tyres

[Don K]

Originally Posted by Don K

As far as I understood, Doornbos was supposed to be back as friday test driver next race. In that case, this ban is very bad luck for Doornbos. If Jordan are planning to let Montagny race in France, I would expect them to give Montagny a second friday test. Which would mean that Montagny would be friday test driver at Indianapolis, and Doornbos would miss 3 friday tests in a row ...

It seems that Doornbos' contract allowed Jordan to use another test driver for 1 or 2 weekends.

I do not know wether that means that Jordan has to use Doornbos for all friday tests after Canada, or that they can still have Montagny as test driver one time.

[Don K]

Originally Posted by Silk Cut Jaguar

I don't really understand how people could claim it was an honest mistake, one set of tyres you could maybe explain away as an over sight, but two? No way.

Montagny was slow during the first session.
But during that session he gave feedback that really improved the Jordan car (remember that no other experienced driver had ever driven that car).
So the extra sets of tyres might have been some kind of pay back.

So the extra feedback he gave during that second session might be worth more than the feedback Doornbos could have given in Canada.

[Silk Cut Jaguar]

I'm not disputing that they probably had good reasons to give Montangy some extra running and tyres, just that it seems extremely blatant and nowhere near a 'mistake'.

[312T4]

I'm sure it was a team mistake to give him extra tyres.
Also consider that Schnider is Russian-Canadian and has a huge business in building constructions in Canada and will have lots of important guest in Canada for the next GP.
I'm really sure that the last thing he wanted to do was to arrive there and explain his friends why the 3rd car is not running...
He has asked to FIA to posticipate the disqualification to USGP, but they have confirmed it for Canada weekend.

[f1atic]

Originally Posted by Kicking-back

Honest mistake, fair penalty.

Nothing to get heated over, I reckon.

Nicely put.
Honest mistake or not, the rules are clear and once the factor of personalities get involved in making exceptions here and there, we may as well not have rules. It would become as an Italian Polizia (friend of mine) once jokingly explained to me, "The only reason for traffic laws in Italy is so that if something like an accident occurs, we can figure out who to blame. Everyone does what they want or can get away with until there is the accident."