ARDS Test

[schomosport]

750 MC club used to publish within the Stock Hatch regulations a list of drivers with car types and contact nos who would be willing to offer advice to newcomers. Not saying it was a 'buddy' sytem as such but if I were a complete novice starting out in that series and had that list I'd be on the phone pretty quick. I'm sure this arrangement isn't unique to that competition.

[johngee]

The 750MC Stock Hatch 'boys' are very good at helping each other and particularly, new drivers to the championship. Something to be encouraged by other organising clubs I think

[JohnD]

I don't think it was you, John, but drivers new to the course must, by definition, be unfamiliar with the layout of the administration too. Last year, having not raced at Brands for many years, I thought I would be a new driver, but it was the new buildings etc that let me down. I arrived 30 secs late, got a tremendous dressing down and was ordered out. The on-time drivers must have lost two minutes of their briefing.

I offer no excuses, I should have left more time to find the briefing venue, but it was not a pleasant 'welcome back'.
John

[johngee]

John - I can tell you it wasn't me (!) - I don't have that attitude problem and neither do the people that I clerk with or choose to have working with me. I understand that people get 'lost', get held up for one reason or another and the last thing they need is some sort of dressing down. If somebody's late, I can easily work out what they've missed and cover that off on a 1 to 1 basis afterwards. I might quietly suggest afterwards that they try and make it on time in future but that's about as far as it goes!
I'm very sorry that you had that experience and can only suggest that you think about racing with certain clubs that don't treat their 'customers' in that way.

[REALIST]

Originally Posted by johngee

Interesting 'spin' on 1st time driver's briefings Bob. I certainly don't give 'racing' or 'competive' advice other than to draw attention to particular 'features' of the venue, which might 'keep the driver out of trouble' (e.g. Cadwell - "it's very narrow and give each other room when lapping/being lapped" Donington - "the surface is usually felt to offer less grip than normal" Silverstone - "you need to look for flag points - they're not always in your eye line" etc. etc.) Is that what you had in mind Bob? The briefings tend to concentrate on things such as the timetable, where pit lane entrances/exits are, assembly area location, start procedure, parc ferme arrangements, chequered and control flag positions, reminder of flag signals, any specific regs for the meeting/race (pit stops/refuelling etc.) - that's not exhaustive but you get the drift? I then always allow time for questions.
There may well be a place for 'driver advice' but who would give it (?) and then you have the complication of single seaters, sports cars, saloon cars, front drive, rear drive, wet, dry which could all have a bearing on such advice. The biggest accident I 'nearly' had when racing was through taking another driver's advice (well meaning I still believe - LOL) on how to drive a particular corner.
I'm happy to take anybody's thoughts on this?

A puzzling thing that I often wonder about. About 3 years ago first vist to Cadwell in single seater. Saturday testing, Sunday racing.

Arrive Saturday, straight out onto the track with a grid full of other SS and about 12 caterhams, which were running several seconds slower. Several similar sessions during the day.

Sunday, fined £25, license endorsed for being 5 minutes late to first time drivers briefing, which was missed and whatever pearls of wisdom were on offer were never forthcoming. Allowed to race a couple of hours later, notwithstanding.

Now, what does one receive from a first time drivers briefing on Sunday that is not needed to go blasting around in a mixed grid on Saturday? And if it's that important why was it not given at all at the end of the day?

[johngee]

This one comes up time & time again. I'm sure that you'll find that the testing on the Saturday in question was run by the circuit & not the organising club. Unfortunately the rules state that to NOT be considered a 1st time driver you have to have RACED at the circuit before (at a meeting run under an MSA permit) - testing, track days etc don't count I'm afraid. There is a certain logic to that as testing is often run to different 'rules' by the circuit than apply at race meetings and it can also be verified by the MSA if a drivers has or has not raced at a circuit before - there is no such record of testing or track days. Not a perfect reply but I hope gives you some answers. BTW - it could have been £100!

[REALIST]

I would think you are absolutely right with all that. But, and I don't think you are saying this, it doesn't make it 'right'.

Regardless of who is organising a test or race day, surely there should be a common set of rules, especially when we are talking saftey, which we are.

My general feeling is that the risks, from and to first timers, are probably greater when testing, especially when there is a mixed, full grid. Yet there is never, in my experience, a requirement for a briefing. It wouldn't be difficult to arrange and after testing a certain track it wouldn't be difficult to provide a certificate that exempted one from further briefings on subsequent visits.

BTW, are you sure your a C of C? If you are why are you debating reaonably and listening to our comments!! (Just joking!)

[johngee]

You're right in that I wasn't saying it was actually 'right' but just clarifying the rules.

BUT, unfortunately, there aren't a common set of safety rules for circuit run test sessions - some are excellent and some - let's say - less so!!!

I take your point about an' exemption certificate' - I'm afraid that the MSA would probably then require test sessions to be run by licenced clerks and as virtually all of us have 'real world ' jobs, that would be difficult for the circuits to resource.

I'll take the last remark as a compliment shall I? LOL I hope nobody from the MSA reads it - I'll get 'struck off' PMSL