DTM Support

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by Elio

You had a 4 hour round trip but didn`t think to study the (well publicised) timetable beforehand to realise what you were actually going to see/not see..... How odd.

Ticket went on sale months ago, the timetable was only published a few weeks ago, so I suspect there were a number of people who hadn't realised what was going to happen.

[BertMk2]

Well I enjoyed the day, DTM was awesome (both race and warm up were good to watch). I thought FPA were pretty good (and I really don't like single seaters) there was always something happening with them whether it was overtakes or accidents. The Ginettas are always good to watch because they can't get through a race without at least someone flying off the road and again they provide overtaking. F3 wasn't hugely special and the historics were vauguely dull after a couple of laps when the "what the heck is that?" factor had worn off (again I'd have to admit to not being a fan of anything too old - ie before my time!).

The time fillers - motorbike stunts, parachutes, taxi rides, "band" were junk (ok so I can't do bike tricks and there's no way I'd jump out of a plane but the time could have been used much better). The taxi rides are an unavoidable feature of the DTM but they could have been scheduled better (or maybe not if ITR control the timetable?).

Overall though I enjoyed it and I'd quite happily go again just a few things to improve on for next time.

[Stephen Green]

Just a couple of points. The DTM is an FIA series and as such MSV have no control over their timetable, rather like the BRDC have little control over the BGP weekend. The Taxi Rides were boring I agree, but they are an integral part of the DTM package and I suspect once again MSV had little control over their timing, however poor it was.

The FPA races were in my opinion very good with plenty of close racing through the field and even overtaking. The Ginetteas, while not the prettiest of cars, provided another close race, especially at the front with Rob Austen.

I think there are lessons to be learnt of course, and maybe next year MSV will be able to have a greater input into the timetable and rescedule the Taxi Rides for after the days racing.

All in all I thought it was a good weekend. The new snatch vehicles doing a good job and saving several race stops.

Someone mentioned the horadings being too big. I know that JP got quite a few of them reduced after he did a track inspection on Saturday, especially those around Clearways.

[R59]

Then again, the hoardings didn't obscure his view of the start of FPA race2 did they? (from his heliochopter!!!!)

Perhaps ADAC/ITR could be educated into the way that we like things in dear old Blighty.

Or people won't come back for a second viewing.

BertMK2 - were you on the inside of druids? Someone there with a Mad Dog Racing shirt on, and I'm sure you'll be around there somewhere....

Rob.

[Alan Brown]

Most people have said everything that I wanted to say about the meeting (boring F3 racing, long waits etc), but here a some extra observations. Why can Brands not have a radio commentary like Silverstone etc so that people can follow what is going on? To try to follow the outcome of the DTM race was very difficult with two pit stops and a lack of loudspeakers inside Druids. Mind you, the noise of the DTM cars would drown most commentaries. Thus a need for a radio commentary would help. Apparently Ekstrom overtook Green after Kristensen wentoff/retired. I'll have to wait to Wed/Thurs for some brief reports in the comics for the details. I suppose I could have done a lap chart for 85 laps.... Not all the cars displayed the fact that they had pitted.

What was wrong with lying in the sun/shade for a couple of hours in the afternoon? After all, many people do that at home after Sunday lunch listening to the neighbour's sound system playing some rubbish. Brands was no different (except you paid loadsamoney). By the way, in my opinion, the tribute band was not quite as bad as the U2 tribute band at BTCC, but only just.

[Stephen Green]

Alan, there are speakers everywhere else at Brands apart from the inside of Druids.

You are right, Green was passed after Kristensen retired. I believe Jamie ran wide at Graham Hill Bend while trying to keep Ekstrom a decent gap behind. He has addmitted to trying a little too hard and has apologised to the team.

[Gaz]

I decided not to go in the end due to the lack of supports - no point spending £100 on a weekend and travelling 250 miles there and another back if you could sit at home and watch it on the tele.

Its typical FIA and their rip off of the public - its exactly the same as the F1 meeting at Silverstone. They believe the feature race is the main event and as long as you see that then you've got your money's worth - they don't realise that most of us who attend National meetings week in week out expect more.

The F3's were always going to be part of the package. F3 racing takes a special taste to enjoy but when run on the right circuit can be entertaining. Brands Indy was never going to produce a race - its simply impossible to overtake around there unless you are massively quicker than the car infront so you'll only ever see action right at the very back with drivers who have mainly had problems coming through but once they reach a level i.e 10th/11th that area then that it.

I imagine Palmer Audi was similar although having not seen the race I can't comment too much on that. I've not seen too much of Palmer Audi in general of recent years but its always going to be part of a top MSVR meeting and I think as a relatively high profile series is a good edition in general.

Beyond that Historics never interest me and Ginettas although produce close racing never seem to create that much excitement. Perhaps its because the personalities aren't as high profile or because its not a major UK top level series but it just doesn't give a thrill.

In saying this both the DTM and WTCC dates came together relatively late this year when other high profile series already had their calendars set. Perhaps next year Clio's, Seats or other series could be added to the bill in order to produce a better content of support to the DTM which from watching at home looked very entertaining.

[redshoes]

Stephen, the speakers are usual next to the debris fence, which is not always the best place. South Bank for example the speaker are very loud if you are stood next to them but hopeless if you stand further up the bank to get a better view. Getting the radio licence and renting equipment can be expensive but IMO worth it for a large meeting such as this, and more so where the cars were that loud.

Just looking at the timetable for the last DTM round at Oscherleben (http://www.dtm.de/rennen.php?rennen=...winf=zeitplan).
FBMW
DTM warm-up
Polo Cup
Porsche Cup
Euro F3
lunchbreak / taxi rides / pit walk / etc
DTM race
Seat Cupra

Same number of support races but taxi rides moved to lunchtime, with the distraction of pit walkabout so something for the public to do. Would still prefer to see Polos/Seats but even without those it seems a better schedule.

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by racing59

BertMK2 - were you on the inside of druids? Someone there with a Mad Dog Racing shirt on, and I'm sure you'll be around there somewhere....

Yep, I was there (that was my sister(Bills car polisher) in the Mad Dog t-shirt). I went for a JMC Rallysport shirt and old man Subaru sun hat (classy). I'll stop with the "what not to wear" thing now

If they can get rid of the gaps (and the band) and get another couple of support races in then the majority of people would be well happy. Personally I thoroughly enjoyed it - big snorty cars (proper cars - with a lid on) blasting round the track - me likey, more please

[Stephen Green]

I agree with your suggestion ref the timetable Nigel but assume the DTM guys didn't want the normal support package, or it was too expensive to ship them all over?

The idea of taxi rides earlier would have been great as it would have meant less gaps later after the main race. As it was the crowd left in their droves which I felt was a shame as they did miss some good racing. However, I heard many German fans during the weekend and wonder how many would have left early anyway to catch ferries home?

[ATF]

Originally Posted by Stephen Green

Just a couple of points. The DTM is an FIA series and as such MSV have no control over their timetable, rather like the BRDC have little control over the BGP weekend.

The DTM is not an FIA series, is it?!

[Stephen Green]

Well it was certainly run to FIA rules!

[Ian Sowman]

Having just checked on the FIA website my thoughts have been confirmed - it is not an FIA championship.

[Ranald]

Indeed it's certainly not an FIA event rather and ADAC event. So for this on the FIA can't be blamed.

[Stephen Green]

Ok I stand corrected, an ADAC event run to FIA rules.

[R59]

Stephen, the speakers are on the inside of druids, and they were very loud.

Gaz - the passing points are as follows (from the start) - Paddock (achieved by getting a better exit from Clearways, getting a tow, and then getting the inside line into the corner.

Or, you sell a dummy, the dummy in front closes the door, you take to the proper late turn in, get a far better exit, and get on the inside for Druids.

Get a blinding exit to bottom bend, or as is known these days, and Surtees/McLaren becomes your next target.

If you can't overtake around Brands, you can't.... I shall say no more.

If you require lessons, I'm sure someone like Simon Mason would take your money.

As for who ran the meeting - was it not an ADAC/ITR/MSV arrangement.
As for who ran air traffic control, I don't think anyone did.

Happy days.

Rob.

[Go_For_Pole]

Soooo with only 21,500 spectators attending the big question is: Is the race sucessful enough to see a return next year?

[Rob29]

If that was 'only' 21,500 it certainly looked like the most people I have seen there in 20 years-since last F1?

[Go_For_Pole]

To clarify, the number was found on the DTM website so I am taking it as fact.

As for 'only' I have used it because I remember A1 announcing a much bigger figure for their race. And also DTM does attract well over than 21k spectators in Germany so surely Brands wasn't a huge sucess by their standards, was it?

[Elio]

And also DTM does attract well over than 21k spectators in Germany so surely Brands wasn't a huge sucess by their standards, was it?

Depends whether DTM want a race in the UK I guess. I would guess that Brands` Race Day crowd beat the Race Day crowd at any previous DTM event in the UK (purely a guess, I could be way off the mark here). It`s all relative.... UK crowds seem to be a lot lower than European crowds across the whole board - FIA GT, LMS, etc etc.... But if you want your series represented in the UK then maybe Brands is a better place to do it at than Silverstone or Donington?

[mini1400]

Originally Posted by Go_For_Pole

To clarify, the number was found on the DTM website so I am taking it as fact.

As for 'only' I have used it because I remember A1 announcing a much bigger figure for their race. And also DTM does attract well over than 21k spectators in Germany so surely Brands wasn't a huge sucess by their standards, was it?

Then again it was the DTM's first year at Brands, and not many in the UK know or care about it, so 21.5k spectators isn't bad....

[Elio]

You can`t really compare the crowd size figures at Brands to the `native` crowd the DTM gets in Germany. These days 20K+ is a big crowd for a UK race meeting. I know Brands is a compact venue but it did seem rather full.

I wasn`t at Brands BTCC in April but I doubt it was that full. So, if I`m right in that assumption, should the BTCC have an away day at, say, Oschersleben, I wonder if the Germans could get, say 70k+ (a typical DTM crowd) to come and watch??......

[redshoes]

It certainly seemed busier than the BTCC meeting, and definatly busier than the last DTM meeting at Donington. I always take published crowd figures at face value as there are so many different ways of calculating them - is that the 3 day total or just race day, does it include teams and hospitality guests or just gate receipts, etc etc.

Don't know what the normal situation in DTM is but often at big European event there will be (tens of) thousands of tickets given away. That's something that rarely happens in the UK, at least not to such an extent.