Stoner - has he delivered?

[Schummy]

knowlesy's filth mind maybe has caused him to understand balls as... ... as...

[chunder]

I think Casey is doing just fine, just look at him compared to De Puniet who has also won race son a 250 and been fast, he has crashed for France all year and will still probably get e seat in the team next year!
Casey is rela fast and has just got to a limit where he cant stay at for very long.
Plus he must get annoyed with Dani beating him for sure. But Dani is special in the same way Vale is for me. Those two are on a bit of a pedestal. Then you have Nicky, Marco, Casey, Loris, Shinya and a few othes.

I dont think his bikes are rubbish, he is pasting Elias who has won 250 mraces, pasting Tamada who was very quick in Germany but seeems to get lost most weekends and not doing bad against Marco and the Repsol bikes.
I wouldnt expect him to be quicker than the works bikes but his kit will be the same as MArco's, only thing missing is the three years Marco has been in the class!

[mac]

Originally Posted by DavidStHubbins

Yeah, the satellite Honda excuse doesn't cut ice I'm afraid. He's on a proven product while Hayden is developing a new bike all season.

There's no doubt it is a good, solid and proven bike.

But I would be willing to bet that Casey's bike is pretty much the same as it was at the start of the year, while the Repsol machines would be far more developed since Round 1.

The difference is that Hayden and Pedrosa (and Rossi and even Melandri for that matter) get the go-faster bits straight away, while Lucio's squad would have to wait for it to drip down.

And then once they get the bits they cannot compare how to make them work properly on another bike because they only have one - it is pure trial and error.

Plus, as Boots points out, the team are MotoGP novices.

All this makes both their and Casey's achievements quite remarkable so far.

[DavidStHubbins]

But how much faster did Biaggi and Barros go when they joined Repsol?

Answer = none. None more faster.

Tings are not always so black and white /:

[mac]

It's not necessarily about going faster.

Watch the Bayliss-Edwards battles on superbikes at Imola a few years back. Bayliss looks totally out of control, while Edwards is perfectly smooth.

They were both going as quick as each other, but Edwards won both races because he could do that pace easier.

Stoner can often be as quick as the Repsols, but he is hanging on for his life to do so, while Pedrosa and Hayden do it a lot more comfortably.

Besides, when Biaggi and Barros were at Repsol it could be argued that the team was at its lowest ebb in quite sometime.

[DavidStHubbins]

Originally Posted by mac

It's not necessarily about going faster.

Watch the Bayliss-Edwards battles on superbikes at Imola a few years back. Bayliss looks totally out of control, while Edwards is perfectly smooth.

They were both going as quick as each other, but Edwards won both races because he could do that pace easier.

Stoner can often be as quick as the Repsols, but he is hanging on for his life to do so, while Pedrosa and Hayden do it a lot more comfortably.

Besides, when Biaggi and Barros were at Repsol it could be argued that the team was at its lowest ebb in quite sometime.

Bayliss always looks out of control! He rides the ragged edge. Right now he looks good because Ducati has the best traction control. He's still sliding and jumping out the seat though - even when he's in the lead by a mile. Edwards was always smooth in WSBK and is in MotoGP too, slow or fast. It's not a fair analogy to what we are discussing.

Pedrosa looks smoother than Stoner because he is a smoooooth rider, and as good as Stoner is I wouldn't class him in the Pedrosa bracket. Put them on equal bikes and Pedrosa would still be better. That's my provisional belief - and I am open to Stoner shoving it down my throat with his future performances. Pedrosa is the biggest rival to Rossi in a long time - best rider (other than Rossi) since Doohan.

Hayden is not so smooth as Dani but has years of experience in the premier class, something Stoner does not. That is why the other Repsol is doing so well.

Melandri has had a lot if injury this year, same for Elias, so they are not really at 100%, thus they have not been able to show their true worth. Elias seems unable to qualify and starts poorly but up until his injury this season he was setting a hellish pace, albeit coming from waay back.

With experience Stoner will smoothen up, and he'll be riding fast without trying so hard. Nothing wrong with that bike.

[gfm]

I'm guessing that for the amount he's spent in Moto GP he has not disappointed. Should only get better. We'll see.

[DavidStHubbins]

I wish I was going to Phillip Island... Maybe I still will - CRRRRREDIT CAAAAAARD WHERE ARE YOU????? Come out wherever you ARE!

[Schummy]

Oh.

I have it.

[mac]

Everyone's comparing Casey and Pedrosa, but what about Vermeulen?

Who is the better, and who will be the better of the young Aussies? Casey or Chris?

[L34]

Originally Posted by mac

Everyone's comparing Casey and Pedrosa, but what about Vermeulen?

Who is the better, and who will be the better of the young Aussies? Casey or Chris?

Chris gets my vote.

I have been watching him since his WSS days and I think he is the real deal.

His efforts on the 4 cyl Honda in its first year in supers was outstanding and they were very unlucky not to be runners up in the championship. Chris has the ability to set up a bike and relay information through to his engineers.

It will be interesting to see how the rest of the year pans out for him against his much more experienced team mate. Vermeulen has clearly out rode his team mate at Sachsenring (first time at the circuit) & Laguna Seca.

[DavidStHubbins]

I've been watching Chris since I first saw him as a young'un at Donington and he was hellishly good, very reassured in his riding, relaxed yet damn fast. I love the way he sets the bike up in the middle of the corner, with the back end snapping out gradually in an oversteery style - very different to Hopkins. Opposing styles from what I can see. Maybe Chris sets up the bike a bit softer and is earlier on the throttle? Seems to be working!

It's a bit hard to know how good Chris is on the Suzuki. He's up against it as he's learning a lot of new tracks and a new style of hustling a big bike but he's on a hot streak at the moment that is for sure.. And he's outshone his very rated team mate too which is not bad at all.

I reckon it's too hard to say who is better at the moment between Stoner and Chris, both damn good and very bright prospects. One of them at least is going to be a World Champion or at the very least a serial runner-up to Pedrosa for the next decade (Let's hope not)

After Rossi I cheer for Melandri and Vermeulen, two cheerful chargers

[chunder]

I think Chris has huge potential and finally with Denning in charge Suzuki have managed to find two riders who can really push the bike to the limits and get some great results.
The team have pretty consistenyl been the quickest Bridgestone team in qually, but Ducati have the power and riders maybe to beat them in some of the races, but not all.
Hopper I think is very under rated and people will always have a bit of doubt coz he never really did that much before being plucked from AMA. Chris though has always been quick but only really won one major title, and that was on the unbeatable Ten Kate bike that made Muggeridge look good!
Muggas is being made to look like a real no hoper by Toseland and was also by Chris.
I think with the experience gained this year and with the bike being to more 800cc rules rather than 990 rules, I am hopinh that Suzuki have maybe gained an advantage!