Top Gear and Motorhomes

[numbersix]

Originally Posted by AndyT

Is the rumour true that Steve Neal is trying to sue someone for the damage done to Matt's motorhome ?.

LOL!

[Bodysnatcher]

Learn from experience, that was my point I guess.

My very first post was an attempt to see if the incident was in any way staged - I had actually hoped that it was. What has emerged is that Top Gear seems to have been lapsing back into it's lets have a laff and damn anybody that tries to be sensible. With the apparent tacit support of some who have contributed to this thread.

A lot of people seem to be blinded to any apparent dangers by a belief that solar radiation emanates from Clarkson's & the Hamster's posteriors.

I thought it was look after self first, then team, then driver...

I still believe that the marshal involved (one of our extended team) was recklessly, but I'll admit not wilfully, endangered by a lack of foresight.

Extract from the HSE report the last time they screwed up
"The investigation also identified failings in the BBC’s safety management systems relating to risk assessment and the procurement of services from others, and by PTLE in their risk assessment for the services they provided to the BBC at Elvington. These failings and other recommendations are being pursued with the two parties involved. However, when viewed against HSE’s enforcement criteria, none of these failings merit prosecution."

TG & co seem not not to have thought about the flimsy yet substantial parts of the motorhomes that extended above the normal stock car safety barriers, and indeed, above the (what appeared to be) scaffold poles around the flag podium. The safety provisions may be adequate for the normal stock car meetings, but they probably were not designed for vehicles ~4m high nor weighing ~5 tonnes.
Whatever the speeds involved.
Relate it to truck racing, mass starts to make a big impact (pun )

[Cynic]

I have to agree with Chezza. It might not be a regular occurence, but accidents like that do happen on an oval, and Brisca F1 cars might not be as heavy, but they probably come at you a damn sight quicker than a motorhome ever will. Any experienced Oval marshal should be ready for that. I'm not making excuses for TG, but I think things are being considered too much from a race circuit perspective here.

In any case, that's the second time TG have blatantly nicked one of my ideas (people carrier racing was the other), so as soon as I find a decent lawyer H&S is going to be the least of their worries!

[ensign14]

Originally Posted by Woolley

The vehicles. I very much doubt they spent an awful lot on them.

They were probably MOT failures anyway. The Beeb would have had to fill those 15 minutes with programming. Outside broadcasts are cheap; you just need a few cameras and staff. There's no script fee, no costume fee, no need to provide a set and so on. Even taking into account the drivers' fees it would have been cost-effective television (and they've done this sort of thing before - think of aygoball).

[b1ackcr0w]

Included within their public service remit, the BBC does have a duty to entertain. I think TG does that bit extremely well. In isolation, the money might seem a lot. But in its day, sending Alan Whicker on first class jaunts around the world would have seemed excessive. The best entertainment does usually come from seeing people do things that we aren't allowed or able to do ourselves.

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by Bodysnatcher

TG & co seem not not to have thought about the flimsy yet substantial parts of the motorhomes that extended above the normal stock car safety barriers, and indeed, above the (what appeared to be) scaffold poles around the flag podium. The safety provisions may be adequate for the normal stock car meetings, but they probably were not designed for vehicles ~4m high nor weighing ~5 tonnes.

While I understand your points - and can't disagree with a lot of them - I think it was abundantly clear for some time before that incident (both several minutes of clip time and probably several hours of actual time) that bits of vehicle were able to - indeed were on seveal occasions - overhanging the barriers. At that point the decision to use the podium was very much down to the person using it, and as he isn't posting here I wouldn't presume to infer whether that was a sensible decision since I'm not in possession of the facts. He may be regretting it, he may be quite happy with it and I have no criticism of his choice either way. The actual rollover apparently was not staged which changes the dynamics a little more towards normal safety, and it has to be noted that however close it was, it did miss. I don't know whether that was luck or judgement, but I'd hope the latter.

I'm well aware that one incident I've attended looked extremely dangerous and very close on the TV coverage. Except that I know it wasn't really either. I'll afford him the same benefit of the doubt unless he chooses to tell us otherwise.

[Alan Green]

Originally Posted by AndyT

I will wait to fully comment on the attitude of Top Gear until I see what they show of their effort in the Britcar 24-hour, could be next weekend.

Not according to the preview it isn't...

"Sunday 25 November, 8pm BBC Two
We pay homage to British Leyland, which at one time was the largest car manufacturer in the UK - well, at least during the brief periods when its workforce wasn't on strike.

Jeremy, Richard and James will be forking out for some used models from the infamous brand, before subjecting them to a series of tests designed to find out if they still have that special BL magic.

We'll also be taking a look at the new DBS from Martin, Aston Martin. Who knows, we might even get through the whole review without referring to a certain fictional secret agent. Damn!"

More likely to be 2nd December, as Sky's programme of the race starts it's run from the Wednesday after (and I guess the contract was for TG to get their story out first):
Wednesday December 5th - SS Extra at 6pm
Wednesday December 5th - SS Extra at 10pm
Thursday December 6th - SS2 at 10am
Thursday December 6th - SS2 at 3pm
Saturday December 8th - SS Extra at Midnight

Al.

[Eddy V]

It's TG, what else do you expect?
Yes it looked very dodgy at the finish, but accidents happen.
I hope as well, as Alisdair says, that no volunteer will get hurt in any of theit future events.

But I loved the video to be honest.
I tried to show it to a friend here at the office in Germany and youtube.de shows the following: "Dieses Video wurde aufgrund eines Verstoßes gegen die Nutzungsbedingungen entfernt." (this video has been removed because of an offence against users conditions).

What users conditions? The motorhomes not used in the proper way?

[numbersix]

Originally Posted by Eddy V

...: "Dieses Video wurde aufgrund eines Verstoßes gegen die Nutzungsbedingungen entfernt." (this video has been removed because of an offence against users conditions)...

Found it!
YouTube.de: Bedingungen des Aufstellens:

"Das Reisemoblile must nicht gestuffed werden bei dem idioten Hamster dumkopf, und auch nicht bei dem Grossen Girls Blouses von dem Englisher Bereisen Autorennen Mannschaft. So dort!"

I should really do Nürburgring, don't y'think.

[JimW]

Just keep searching YouTube with top gear motorhome and you will find a copy which has not yet been pulled.

Jim

[Eddy V]

Er, yeah why not. Nobody really understands the Germans anyhow.

Seen that already Jim, it is mainly youtube.de being silly and afraid ot the Beeb I guess.

[rotorboy]

Originally Posted by Alan Green

Not according to the preview it isn't...



More likely to be 2nd December, as Sky's programme of the race starts it's run from the Wednesday after (and I guess the contract was for TG to get their story out first):
Wednesday December 5th - SS Extra at 6pm
Wednesday December 5th - SS Extra at 10pm
Thursday December 6th - SS2 at 10am
Thursday December 6th - SS2 at 3pm
Saturday December 8th - SS Extra at Midnight

Al.

The EERC website has details of when the Top Gear Britcar edition is going out (http://eerc.co.uk/cms/news.php) - 9th December apparently. Hoping they show me pushing the Stig up the pitlane at about 8pm...!!

[RichardW]

Ah - the Motorhome saga! I WAS the Flaggie in question - Richard Workman from Brands for those who are sad enough to know me. I don't normally contribute here, but as I seem, for probably the only time in my life, to be the centre of attention, just a few points.

1. no-one was compelled to stand anywhere.

2. I was running startline and what passed for Race Control/Comm. There were 5 other MSA marshals there, plus a Rescue Unit.

3. Most of the action was 'safe' enough until the last few laps - the TG team then let it get silly - obviously in the interests of good TV.

4. I could have chosen to evacuate the startline gantry and go behind the debris fence with the TG crew, but I chose not to. In the event of an incident, I wanted to be able to see it and respond to it.

5. Yes it was close, but I've had closer! If you can't move fast, maybe you shouldn't be there??

6. All good fun, but TG shot themselves in the foot by failing to provide the promised tickets for the show Producer has responded to me with apologies and promises of tickets for a future show - though I'll believe it when I see them! And anyway, not the same as being on a show you've helped to make!

7. I won't be a regular contributor here, but just thought you might like a few replies to the points made.

Richard Workman
Observer, Flag Marshal and Incident Marshal.

[BSA Susie]

I thought it was you Richard but I was not confident enough to say so on here! I recognised the patches on your back! Sad I know!

Well said above, well worth registering.

Wellcome to ten-tenths.

Have you looked me up on your 'puter yet?

[Bodysnatcher]

As Susie has already said, I too thought it was you - too many patches on the back. Glad you can still move so swiftly at your age!. (joke)
BTW Susie, Richard joined 10ths 4 yrs ago. He's obviously a lot quieter on the net than in real life.

Just so nobody gets any funny ideas about what gets said on 10ths and then takes it out of context on the training days in 2008, let me stress nowhere have I criticised my colleage Mr W.
Apart from the personal opinion that I would'nt have stood on that gantry.

Nice to know somebody kept you informed of the discussion though Richard, or are you a lurker?
best wishes n'all that, Al


My concerns right from the start (when I tried to get you to reply) were actually
a - A marshal's wellbeing, but obviously he was up for the challenge
b - Top gear getting a bit cavalier
c - Are those really the standards for protection of marshals at oval tracks

enough on this from me - we got 1000+ views in 3 days, you may now return to dormancy till March.

[Eddy V]

Hey Richard, I thought I recognised you as well. At least I saw the cigars.
Must have been great fun that day.

[Woolley]

Hi Richard, and welcome to the forum. Many thanks for your input, you really can't beat the facts from the person who was there. The fact that you had an alternative place to go and chose not to (I quite understand the point of view that sometimes it's safer to be somewhere where you can see what's coming than somewhere that should be safe but you're blind) is enough for me.

[BSA Susie]

Originally Posted by Bodysnatcher

BTW Susie, Richard joined 10ths 4 yrs ago.
He's obviously a lot quieter on the net than in real life.

I didn't notice the date!

[kurtiejjj]

Originally Posted by davyboy

Unlikely to be as much as the 'obscene' GBP18M of our licence money used to pay Jonathan Ross.

18M! And he can't even afford a manly shirt!

[haystacks]

You,ve got to be a man to have shirt.

[mattbull]

Hello all - just a few observations from an oval racing fan.

1. The motorhomes were prepared by a company that specialises in building Banger cars for hire. They also provide plenty of cars for promotional and TV work too, so they have years experience of building cars and vans that in all likelihood are going to be crashed. They may look thrown together but they are fitted with perfectly adequate safety equipment, roll bars, harnesses etc. The owner of the company is Steve Anscombe who has raced Bangers for years and you dont survive that sport for too long if you don't build them right! See www.cecilsrentarookie.co.uk if interested.

2. Safety at the ovals. It all looks very harem scarem but oval racing has a good safety record. Drivers get broken bones and the like but I can only remember one marshall being injured and I do two or three meetings most weekends! Sometimes the standard of marshalling at some venues is questionable but bringing a Banger race under some control when there is an incident is not the easiest job in the world!

3. You have to remember that standing behind the armco at Arena Essex with cars shooting by at 50MPH probably is no more of a risk than standing behind the tyre barrier at Brands with cars shooting by at 100MPH+. I was at the Formula Ford festival. Need I say more!

4. Novelty events take place at the ovals all the time and attract big crowds. Big Van events are popular as are Caravan races and Reliant Robin races. Both the latter two events see high flying accidents and often marshalls are moved back for their safety. The infield marshalls take more of a rsponsibility than the 'corner workers'. Generally though the starter remains in place, his is an important role and being along the straight there is less likelyhood of errant machinery or debris having the correct trajectory to be a danger.

5. Oval racing isnt all about crashing (although much of it is!). I used to do a lot of circuit racing but some of racing on the ovals (and I mean racing) is as good as anything you will see on the circuits. The standard varies from promotion to promotion though, so dont give up on it if you dont find something you like at your local track. Brisca F1 and National Hot Rod racing are the pinnacle of oval racing. But if you are unlucky enough to go to a shale F1 meeting when it chucks it down, you certainly havent seen them at their best.

Regards

Matt
http://www.racepixels.co.uk