F1 teams changing chassis numbers...

[Thundersports]

Over the years I keep reading about F1 teams on the 60s/70s changing chassis numbers on cars whilst on the continent for "tax" reasons does anyone know more or why?

[Vitesse]

Any number of reasons, but usually it had to do with the chassis plate matching the paperwork, which was often necessarily prepared weeks in advance. If you'd damaged c/n 5 beyond immediate repair at Oulton Park and it was supposed to go to Monza for the Italian GP it was the work of moments to whip the chassis plate off it and stick it on the undamaged c/n 3 ...

No names, no packdrill ....

[PeterMorley]

Originally Posted by Thundersports

Over the years I keep reading about F1 teams on the 60s/70s changing chassis numbers on cars whilst on the continent for "tax" reasons does anyone know more or why?

Beofre the EU single market you used to have to pay import duty every time you took a race car into another european country, you could then reclaim the money when you took the car out of the country. That was to prevent people importing foreign goods for free (road cars had an exemption, but race cars were treated as any other commercial goods).

So as to avoid having to hand over cash every time you crossed a border it was possible to obtain a 'Carnet de Passage' from your home country.
You had to hand over the appropriate amount of money in your home country and you then had to get the Carnet stamped every time you entered or exited from a country.

This system meant that you only needed to hand over one payment, rather than one for every country you travelled through.

The carnet could itemise a whole bunch of items - e.g. car chassis number xyz, engine number abc, spare radiators etc etc it also put a value on every single item (but oddly enough a lot of them missed a zero out).
Some customs officers would go through the whole list and others would just look in the back and see what freebies were on offer.

If you watch the BBC2 programme Long Way Down it gives you some idea of the procedure every time they cross into another country.

The thing is the carnet identified a specific car by the chassis number and since it involved lodging money, it was a lot easier to change chassis plate rather than obtain a new carnet and hand over more money each time you produced a new car.

[Dan Rear]

Thanks Peter, thats clarified it very well. I also have long been mystified by this point!

[allenbrown]

Originally Posted by PeterMorley

If you watch the BBC2 programme Long Way Down it gives you some idea of the procedure every time they cross into another country.

Good point!

[D-Type]

Thanks Peter, I've seen references to carnets before, but never really understood what they wer and how the system worked. That also clarifies why teams would bring the remains of totally wrecked cars home with them a they would have to pay the full duty if they left it behind.

[Thundersports]

Thanks Peter, these practises didn't help Allen and others job though!

[allenbrown]

Too true. Fortunately, people like Denis Jenkinson didn't worry overmuch about the chassis plate and would tell us things like "Scheckter had a brand new car but still bearing the plate of the one he wrecked at Dijon". Likewise, F2 reporters and even F/Atlantic reporters would say "Fittipaldi's car had been completely rebuilt since he stuffed it at Pau" or "Jarier was using Lauda's usual car but the team had swapped the chassis plates for paperwork reasons". For the earlier stuff, 1950 for example, you have to resort to comparing photographs. It is possible to work out what happened - it's just very, very difficult!

[PeterMorley]

Originally Posted by D-Type

Thanks Peter, I've seen references to carnets before, but never really understood what they wer and how the system worked. That also clarifies why teams would bring the remains of totally wrecked cars home with them a they would have to pay the full duty if they left it behind.

That's it - every item had to be accounted for, of course there was the possibility of bringing a different car/engine or whatever back out as long as it appeared to match the description.....

I vaguely recall there was a way of doing it without actually handing over all of the money (I think you paid about 10%), similar to using a customs agent to import a car - customs take their word that the money will arrive so they release the car immediately, if you try it as a private individual the only option is cash.
I think it was guaranteed by your local RAC, whoever it was would have wanted you to get everything stamped so that their money was safe - even if customs were closed for the evening and the mechanics wanted to get home they had to wait to get the carnet stamped so that the money was safe.

There were also various difficulties when a wealthy team had somewhat different values on their carnets.
Explaining why our F3000 car and engine (which was listed seperately even if fitted in a car) was worth a 10th of the one that had been through earlier that morning caused a few heart murmurs, fortunately others appeared who had similar values so that it looked like someone had made a mistake earlier on (errors in exchange rate calculation being the accepted likely issue iirc), and of course it explained why the other car was so much further up the grid!!!

I think they were in use within europe until late 1992, they are still in use in other countries.

[bwatt]

Originally Posted by allenbrown

Fortunately, people like Denis Jenkinson didn't worry overmuch about the chassis plate

Jenks once got into terrible trouble when he wrote an article for the VSCC Bulletin, trying to unravel the question of which 250F was which. The manager of a well-known racing driver got very upset, and solicitors were brandished.

[allenbrown]

That's why I believe it's important to state the facts of a situation and not to try to reach subjective conclusions. I have upset quite a few owners over the years but I've learnt to be sympathetic to an owner who suddenly finds they own a car that isn't everything they were led to believe it was.