Do You Think the new modifications to the Hockenheim Circuit are nessasary?Will it ma

I liked the old Circuit better it had High speed and Slipstreaming it was great!

[Ray Bell]

Ever wonder what it was like before the three chicanes were inserted?

After all, the German GP was run without them a few times...

Then, I wonder, have you considered what it was like before the Stadium section was put in there?

You know, the circuit used to go further than that, the loop at that end being similar to the other... it was almost like a big oval...

So changes aren't new at Hockenheim. The first came when an Autobahn cut through the Stadium end... providing the necessity and the finance to build that section to its present standard. The chicanes came when speeds were deemed too high...

Have these changes been an improvement or detrimental?

[Tom Fuller]

I think that the old, longer circuit was in a nutshell - pukka.

[DNQ]

I like things as they are. I don't know why they are changing the track, when all they get out of it is a few extra dollars. At least the chicanes were put there for a reason....(safety, of course)

[Lee Janotta]

Did the Mulsanne chicanes improve LeMans? Is the new Nurburgring better than the old Nordschleif? Or the A1 Ring better than the old Ostërreichring? Did _anything_ ever improve Silverstone (except when the race was run at Brands)?

It's a tradegy to lose those blasts through the trees and panic stops for chicanes, for another cookie cutter stop-go circuit. I just hope the old pavement stays put, so the course can be revived when FIA grows some balls, or a competitor steps up.

[Speedworx]

The new circuit is going to be horrid. The German GP has been ruined!

[Dr. Austin]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Lee Janotta

"Did the Mulsanne chicanes improve LeMans? "


I hated to see the Mulsanne go too, but it was just too fast and too dangerous. they had to do something to keep the guys out of the trees. The chicanes were a really poor answer, but something had to be done.




"Is the new Nurburgring better than the old Nordschleif? Or the A1 Ring better than the old Ostërreichring?"

Well, no, but both of the newer circuits offer their own special challenges and aren't really bad circuits. The Nurburgring is going to ber "updated" again with a stadium section and probably more chicanes.



"It's a tradegy to lose those blasts through the trees and panic stops for chicanes, for another cookie cutter stop-go circuit. I just hope the old pavement stays put, so the course can be revived when FIA grows some balls, or a competitor steps up.

we think alike, but sadly, we are not in control. If it were up to me, they would all race identically prepared shifter karts at the old targa florio. then we would see who are men and who aren't. And after that have them do the Mille Miglia. that would sort it out real quick. and, oh yeah, the third race would be on the isle of man.

[Ralf's Girl]

The modifications to Hockenheim make it into just another circuit - before, with the long straights and chicanes it was unique and it actually allowed for overtaking. The reason for changing it is obviously to seat more spectators. More spectators = more money.

So as always, it's about money. Never mind the people watching at home who want to see a race.

[Alan Jones]

You know Germany was always one of the highlights of the season but now the track will become like the country it represents..........no humour OR personality.

[paulzinho]

The very idea of changing the circuit is a stinker. When will the FIA and FOA realise that people will get boredd of ***** circuits and will end up pricing people out of the "sport".

I sometimes wonder why I still love F1...

[EERO]

Originally posted by AlanJones
You know Germany was always one of the highlights of the season but now the track will become like the country it represents..........no humour OR personality.

Jonesy???? Is that really neccessary??

Let us not forget that when the Grosser Pries von Deutschland moved from Nurburgring to Hockenheimring in 1970 for the first time, it was criticized as an artificial modern track. It still is. Long blasts down straights and a Mickey Mouse stadium section do not a GP make. However, i will grant that the images were compelling on TV, thaose sweeping curves ringed by pine forest were teribly evocative and the races were always interesting.
I am not delussional enough to believe that the new track will have any value, but let us keep things in perspective.

[Alan Jones]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by EERO
[B]


Jonesy???? Is that really neccessary??



Sorry EERO, it was a light hearted jibe, like the majority of my posts

If I have offended you, please accept my apologies.

[Lee Janotta]

Originally posted by paulzinho
The very idea of changing the circuit is a stinker. When will the FIA and FOA realise that people will get boredd of ***** circuits and will end up pricing people out of the "sport".

I sometimes wonder why I still love F1...

Well, F1's still a great spectacle, like it was in the very early days... But the "kit car" era, postwar to the beginning of skirts, turbos and ground effects, was really the best period from a pure racing standpoint. F1 can command such enormous prices for tickets and TV rights today because it's simply the only game in town. There are no serious challenges to the FIA's claim to control the World Driver's Championship. All the series that try to challenge it are too small in scope, or miss the target. CART managed to self-destruct after going public, the ACO/IMSA sanctioned series, with their driver swaps and long race length constitue more of a manufacturer's championship... And any series or sanction that would challenge would need to have it's own stable of loyal track owners, and club racers and track marshall's at their foundation, to avoid being bullied out by the FIA and their affilliates (especially America's extremely corrupt and inept SCCA). And it would need to _really_ play to the fans.

I could go on and on about what I think such a series would look like, but, well... I don't want to waste more bandwidth than I'm entitled to. I'm still pretty new around around.

[Lee Janotta]

A bit of a correction, I should have said '57 was the start of the "kit car" era, the first year the British teams made a serious challenge to Italian (and previously German) dominance. Interestingly, only 5 teams have taken championships since '79. And Brabham and Benneton have since disappeared from the entry lists, which leaves only the Big Three.

[Asp]

On a point, F1 Racing had a plan as the old Hock' as where the GP would be held - I'm hoping they know something we don't: but I bet someone's kicking themselves right now!

[R]

Originally posted by hakkiman
The new circuit is going to be horrid. The German GP has been ruined!

Exactly. Couldn't have said it better myself. "Bland" and "uninteresting" are the words which come to mind. It looks like the aim is to make all tracks as boring as the Hungaroring, then we can play "guess the track", because they will all look similar, and if it weren't for the date, we would have no idea where we were.

[EERO]

Originally posted by Lee Janotta
... I don't want to waste more bandwidth than I'm entitled to. I'm still pretty new around around.

Don't worry about that, everyone is equal here, except for Moffat whom we all pity. BTW, I see you're from the Forest City. I'm a long time Tribe fan as my father, an Ohioan, infected me with that affliction when I was a kid.

Anyway, welcome aboard, speak your mind with the certainty that we value your contribution.

Jonesy, I take no offense, with my German ancestry, I HAVE no sense of humour. I was merely worried that some one else might take offense. You know, dear, that you could never offend me.

[BBKing]

The changes will make Halfies "Saving his engine" efforts useless.....LOL

[Dr. Austin]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by EERO

"I take no offense, with my German ancestry, I HAVE no sense of humour."

LOL. I think you just proved that you do!

[Eff One]

Hockenheim has gone through many changes in the past as Ray Bell said, but at least before it was still a high-speed circuit with long straights what they have done here is just ruined it.

[BootsOntheSide]

"It's a tradegy to lose those blasts through the trees and panic stops for chicanes, for another cookie cutter stop-go circuit. I just hope the old pavement stays put, so the course can be revived when FIA grows some balls, or a competitor steps up."

Exactly right. A lot of the current F1 circuits are deisgned to be too easy. Spa, Montreal, Suzuka and A1Ring are about the only ones which really provide the driver with a challenge, and only the A1Ring of those is new. Hockenheim used to be a unique thrilling track which produced great unpredictable races. Not anymore by the look of it.

[paulzinho]

Originally posted by BootsOntheSide
and only the A1Ring of those is new.

Ah yes but even this has been tamed and is a shadow of the old Ostereichring. That was great, fast and challenging.

[Glen]

Malaysia isn't bad, for an example of a modern track that promotes overtaking. Just because it'snew doesn't mean it's bad per se.

I agree it's a shame about about losing the classic track, but safety is an issue that will never go away.

[Thommy]

It is a shame what happens on europe's beatyfullst racetracks: The legendary speed-duells are history now! I remember the good old dtm-races on old hockenheim - GREAT! Thank you bernie, you've taken away some history!