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25 Sep 2009, 16:53 (Ref:2548076) | #26 | |||
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Spudy - my understanding is that F2 drivers have had a maximum of 1 or 2 days testing ALL season so I really don't think it is fair to say F2 is 'worse' than other series in giving those with money an advantage. In fact it's fairly obvious that F3 and GP2 have always benefited those who can pay for testing and to race with the best teams. Once again I am certainly not putting F2 above GP2 or anything like that but you have to have a balanced view and be fair to a championship that has just got off the ground. I was a little sceptical when it first came about but as I said previously, I have been pretty impressed with the first season... |
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26 Sep 2009, 15:14 (Ref:2548609) | #27 | ||
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Campos says he wants either De la rosa or Marc Gene, surely Soucek is a better bet
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26 Sep 2009, 16:31 (Ref:2548652) | #28 | ||
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Soucek has what F1 experience exactly? 1 test, soon to become 2 tests...
DLR and Gene have been driving F1 cars for a decade. I think they're the better bets Besides, it's between them only for 1 seat. The other will probably go to Petrov or Perez, although Piquet's been mentioned now |
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26 Sep 2009, 19:54 (Ref:2548748) | #29 | ||
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27 Sep 2009, 09:36 (Ref:2549048) | #30 | ||
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27 Sep 2009, 09:42 (Ref:2549049) | #31 | |
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Is Soucek full of $ to be in contention for this seat.
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4 Oct 2009, 20:45 (Ref:2554097) | #32 | ||
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Soucek is certainly a worthy Champion this year just by his consistency but winning this series has not done his F1 hopes any better. He does seem to get the best support than any of the other drivers and do we know how many test days he has done durin the season? Im sure he is able to afford the best technical support at trackside as well, there are no rules against this so no surprises he has done so well. Not sure how many engineers he had but certainly a lot meeting him after the races, money is always going to put you at the font in one way or another. Think he is the most "professional" driver in the pack so think it was in the series best interests to have him as the Champion, the Red Bull chaps have not really done so well, will they be back next year or putting their budget into a bigger and better publicised series? |
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5 Oct 2009, 08:27 (Ref:2554314) | #33 | ||
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Please explain what you mean by the above. Which driver credentials are wrong? I heard that there has been no extra tests for F2 cars during this season, other than official tests which all drivers attended. Do you know differently? Also the F2 engineers are very good, and as with all series you do, drivers bring driver coaches, advisers etc.. so what is different with F2. You have made a lot of open comments but not backed anything up? |
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5 Oct 2009, 09:31 (Ref:2554354) | #34 | ||
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Aleshin - Renault 3.5 race winner = he has indeed one 1 race, but has made 50 starts over 3 seasons, so no so impresive. Hohenthal - British F3 race winner = has a race victory but in 38 starts over 2 seasons. Highest championship position was only 7th. Sanchez - Spanish F3 Champion = Only 5 drivers competed all the seasons races in the Class A catergory. When Jamie Algersauri competed in 8 races he won 3 of them and blew Sanchez away in results. Is Spanish F3 that good, does anyone know who is leading this years standings?? You can verify this data over on wikipedia. Im not saying these are bad drivers but saying they are good just because they have a race win does not tell the full story IMO. Im not sure but I dont think F2 allows extra tests but if you have the money you can go and pay for a circuit for practice. Soucek also has his old GP2 enginner supporting him and I bet he doesnt come cheap. Why does he need another enginner, are the F2 enginners not as good as his one or too busy looking after lots of drivers? http://motorsport.com/photos/select...._1&Y=2009&O=96 Although you can run in this series cheaply, you need more money than the standard budget to be able to compete at the top so is it a bit false economy really?! Does that back up my previous comments? |
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6 Oct 2009, 00:03 (Ref:2554841) | #35 | ||
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Not really. You highlighted Aleshin, Hohenthal and Sanchez but didn't mention the other drivers BuiltForSpeed talked about. And your ramblings are truly selective. You mention that Hohenthal has 1 race win in British F3 which is wrong, he has two. You neglected to say how he set a lap record in his first F3 race and managed to finish 'only 7th' in the standings despite missing the last 6 races in the season. You also neglected to mention his 7 wins and Formula Renault UK title.
You didn't mention that Aleshin finished 6th on his GP2 debut despite starting outside the top 20. Neither did you talk about Bortolotti who Ferrari (!) are keeping tabs on. Or Wickens who Red Bull have, or Jousse- look at his pace in Superleague Formula at the weekend. If you don't have information about Soucek doing extra testing, then don't bring it up, otherwise your comments are meaningless. You get your information from Wikipedia, enough said. |
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6 Oct 2009, 08:30 (Ref:2554983) | #36 | ||
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I dont think one result in GP2 for Aleshin is really going to make him an F1 candidate. If he was that good then why wa she not snapped up by a GP2 team this year? Wickens has a great racing CV and his 2 wins at the start of F2 were brilliant but he did not live up to that early promise. It seems that when he is struggling there is an aggresive side to his driving, just ask Alex Brundle after his Donnington accident. Jousse is obviously a talented guy and this is why he is getting drives in other series like Le Mans and Superleague but personally I was a little disappointed with some of his drives in F2 when I think he should have been closer to the front. Im surprised there is no mention of his Superleague performance on the F2 website, or would that be seen as negative publicity?? As for Hohenthal, you are correct that he won 2 races (and not 1 that I said) and he missed 6 races but if you look at the championship standings, with his previous race performance in mind he would have climbed up the standings much further anyway. Certainly not into the top 3 which the top drivers need to be in to get noticed. Lastly, my point about being able to practice at other circuits is more a reference to some drivers having more money than others so they are able to get an advantage over other drivers who dont have the money. I dont know if Soucek tested elsewhere but Im sure that some others did during the season and whilst it is within the rules and done in all series, it does make a mockery of the low budget series and even playing field that F2 is trying to promote. |
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8 Oct 2009, 17:43 (Ref:2556806) | #37 | |||
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We could sit here and have a childish argument that if he beat Pantano or Pizzonia, but then Jousse was beaten by this Lithuanian kid in F2, then this Kazim must be pretty good?!? Of course it doesn't work like this but thats the point of a good debate Anyway I thought this thread was about Andy Soucek!! Does anyone know when the Williams test will be? |
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11 Oct 2009, 21:58 (Ref:2559232) | #38 | |||
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Seriously, Soucek will find it a bit of a shock when he gets back in a decent single-seater. I'd guess the test won't be until after the F1 season is finished. |
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12 Oct 2009, 12:48 (Ref:2559744) | #39 | |
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Not sure that I would say that the F2 car is not a decent single seater. If you are not paying attention then it seems a bit hard to make that judgement. They have had some teething problems and have been developing the car during the season. The original car from Wlliams was actually very good and despite the obvious early reliability problems which all totally new race car series would go through. (especially with the short lead time) All development costs have been spread out over a full field of 25 cars and not over that of a 2 to 4 car team.
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12 Oct 2009, 15:46 (Ref:2559914) | #40 | |||
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The truth is that having initially been very interested in F2 and thinking that it was going to be a very serious category, to me, and obviously this is just my personal opinion, it didn't work out that way. I did in fact keep an eye on it, but it just seemed to lose importance. I know quite a few of the drivers who took part in it this year and I would love to sit down with them over a pint and find out exactly what they thought of it. All F2 has done for some of them is keep them racing this year. They should have had far better results and I'm sure it's not because they lost their ability or previously had an unfair advantage. Put it another way. Where do you think F2 sits now in relation to GP2, WSR and F3? I know budget considerations are a major factor and in that respect F2 has been marketed very well and very cleverly. One would would expect no less of JP. But in terms of performance and what it teaches you, F2 just doesn't deserve to be recognised as a step down from F1. It definitely has its niche in the market place, but not as an F1 feeder series, which is what it should be. That's why most people refer to it as Super FPA, which is about right. I'm sure it's a decent enough chassis. Williams wouldn't turn out anything that wasn't, but it was built to strict budget constraints and probably to a specific performance specification. |
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12 Oct 2009, 16:40 (Ref:2559963) | #41 | ||
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12 Oct 2009, 20:51 (Ref:2560144) | #42 | |||
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If there's a stampede of good drivers to sign up for F2 next year, then I'll be wrong. |
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13 Oct 2009, 00:02 (Ref:2560254) | #43 | ||
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Yes you get better at driving the Golf (or so one would of course hope) and that experuience would likely transfer to anything similar and perhaps to the next level up (Front wheel drive) with good success. But would it put you in good shape to leap straight into a Ferrari? There are a couple of mid season F1 additions this year whose experiences suggest it might be a little more challenging than that these days. I'm not sure why that should be but I presume the testing ban has not helped them at all. It could be something else though. There seem to be (and always have been) a lot of drivers who, no doubt for many different and personal reasons stand out in lower formulae and vanish as they move to higher levels. Yet there are others who do little to stand out at the lower, less powerful, end but seem to come alive if they get a higher level, more powerful opportunity. (And of course here are those who do well all the way through their early careers and progress convincingly to the pinnacle series.) If Soucek gets his chance, given his realtively broad previous expeience anyway, we may get some clues about the potential for F2/SPA as a feeder championship for F1. That said I suspect that the F2 idea, form the FIA's perspective, is more about gaining acceptance for a one make approach (that might ultimately be extended to F1) than as a driver development ladder, at least it seems to be that way for now. |
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13 Oct 2009, 15:49 (Ref:2560639) | #44 | |||
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I have been looking through this thread and came across this extract from an earlier post:
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I had a look at the photos in the link and, sure enough, there is one of Andy Miller, who engineered Soucek in GP2 when he was with DPR. Andy is massively experienced in many levels of single-seater racing. So what's the truth? I understood it was one F2 engineer per three cars and not always the same engineer for the same cars. But if you're allowed to hire your own engineer and have his exclusive services, that's a massive advantage and shouldn't be allowed. No wonder Soucek won if that's what happened. |
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13 Oct 2009, 20:25 (Ref:2560788) | #45 | ||
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In formula 2 as in all formula's a driver can bring to the circuits who ever they want. ( engineer, driver coach , manager ect.) I believe that all car changes must come throught a drivers F2 engineer to the F2 mechanic. Also during sessions the only communications drivers have is with the mechanic or F2 engineer. Any assistance from outside source must come indirectly throught the driver (Out of session). I must also say that the F2 engineers are all of similar experience to Andy. Several with F1 experience. The F2 engineers also have a further advantage as they are able to access all changes to all cars (not just their group)throughout the weekend. |
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13 Oct 2009, 23:20 (Ref:2560877) | #46 | |||
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However, I draw a definite distinction between a driver bringing along friends and family, manager, driver coach etc and a separate engineer. I can't think of any other formula where that is allowed. Indeed, I think it would be taken as an insult and be completely unwelcome. However, I am thinking of formulae where teams are involved, not formulae like F2 and FPA where everything is supposedly (as I thought) run in-house. If you are agreeing that Andy Miller was indeed Soucek's personal engineer and had to operate through the cumbersome procedure you describe, then I am amazed. Are you sure that Andy was not just one of the FPA engineers who happened to look after Soucek all the time? Even that would be outside the procedure that I understood applied. |
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14 Oct 2009, 06:14 (Ref:2561034) | #47 | ||
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Many of the F2 drivers have consultant engineers paid for by them.
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14 Oct 2009, 07:17 (Ref:2561060) | #48 | ||
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14 Oct 2009, 09:35 (Ref:2561116) | #49 | ||
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14 Oct 2009, 12:30 (Ref:2561231) | #50 | |||
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