2011 Radical Cup Series

[ff s conscience]

It's an Australian series and it's a sports car.

This is NOT JUST a touring car thread section, it's also "Australian" motorsport.

But, i agree. In fact, I vote we have a separate knuckle dragger *cough, I mean V8 supercar section away from Australian GT and sports cars.

Whats sporty about a 4 door Falcon/Commodore anyway?????

check the sig....... v

[scuderus]

Originally Posted by ff s conscience

It's an Australian series and it's a sports car.

This is NOT JUST a touring car thread section, it's also "Australian" motorsport.

But, i agree. In fact, I vote we have a separate knuckle dragger *cough, I mean V8 supercar section away from Australian GT and sports cars.

Whats sporty about a 4 door Falcon/Commodore anyway?????

check the sig....... v

You have mail.

cheers

[Silver 3]

Originally Posted by rdmdog

Why is this in amongst the Touring Car threads?

Because this whole section is about Australasian motorsport.It the the whole forum section that needs renaming-- to include V8 Supertaxis.

[rdmdog]

Sorry for offending, few sensitive types there from the look of it.

My remark was along the lines of the people who splinter when Marcos' NASCAR, or Weber's F1 get a mention in here to be thrown to the four winds!

I wish it was about Australian motorsport, as then it would be a great place for us to keep in touch with all the unheard of Aussies that are competing in various forms of sport O/S at the moment.

God forbid there be a Formula Ford thread in here!!! :%

(My suggestion would be that this Sub Forum be called Aussie Motor Sport All Round, or something similar?)

[Silver 3]

Your getting it the wrong way around--The title should be Australasian Motorsport(includes New Zealand) and the V8 Supertaxis are part of that --as in a PART of.

[Tony C]

Originally Posted by Silver 3

Your getting it the wrong way around--The title should be Australasian Motorsport(includes New Zealand) and the V8 Supertaxis are part of that --as in a PART of.

It appears that you have not been listening to Mr Cochrane! there is only one category in Australia, or should be only one category. The rest of us know that they are only part of a broader community.

Its a pity that the rescue offer from GT was not accepted, at least then we would have a support category with some speed and international flavour instead of historic taxis with historic drivers.

[Silver 3]

Trying to avoid another hijack of a thread--- which is no where near the hijack of Australian motorsport being perpertrated by Cochrane & Co.
The Sports/GT car could put on a very credible show--if event was used to showcase all the good things about Sports/GT cars racing I am sure it can capture the public imagination. That is exactly what Cochrane does not want-anyone else to be remotely close to the centre stage.

[Henry]

Originally Posted by Silver 3

Not a 2A car. Could most probably be logbooked as 2C.

If you have some idea relevent to 2A eligibility somewhere it would be wise not to try and be too secretive-it can only hurt you in the long run if you do not ask the right question in the right place!

[]

I'm a long way off any sort of move, but put the missus on notice that my mid-life crisis will involve a bike-engined kit car of some sort, and there are a group of us busted-arse types who often mull over thngs like cars without roofs from time to time... I had a bit of a look at CAMS stuff on 2A (haven't started looking at 2C) but the references to spare tyres etc had me pondering exactly how strictly things like the Radical or the XTR would conform to the letter of 2A reg's.

Once I've sold off my spare kidney, I'll be more likely to ask more probing questions re the XTR and eligibility...

[Yourtoslow]

You really don't have to spend tons of money to get involved,,,here's a car in the UK up for sale. Todays exchnge rate puts it at $44200.00 plus shipping.

http://www.racecarsdirect.com/listin...port_1500.html

[sydneyboy1951]

yourtoslow is right about Radicals being affordable if imported from UK.

But in addition to purchase price need to add 5% duty and 10% GST (even if not selling). In addition to freight if allowed 20% on purchase price would be close to mark, and much cheaper than if purchased locally, though don't know how would go for factory support if needed it!

[Fast_Eddie]

Originally Posted by sydneyboy1951

yourtoslow is right about Radicals being affordable if imported from UK.

But in addition to purchase price need to add 5% duty and 10% GST (even if not selling). In addition to freight if allowed 20% on purchase price would be close to mark, and much cheaper than if purchased locally, though don't know how would go for factory support if needed it!

I'm not sure "factory support" is a valid concern.

We are fortunate in Australia that the local distributor, Radical Australia is very supportive of all Radical owners, not just the owners who have bought new cars from them. Ditto the Radical factory in the UK.

They have an excellent facility at Eastern Creek Raceway, where you can have your car stored and maintained, and where they also keep an inventory of parts. Alternatively, if the parts are not in stock, they can get them from the UK in about 48 hours.

My car is not maintained by Radical Australia, however we order our parts through them and are afforded the same service as the guys who do have their cars looked after by them.

There are valid arguments to getting in to both new and second hand Radicals. The immediate advantage of an imported second hand one is purchase price, however if you want to run with the 2009 spec cars, be prepared to invest the purchase price again on aero upgrades for pre '07 cars, stroker kit to increase capacity to 1500cc, bigger wheels, bigger brakes etc etc.

For those based in Sydney, the last state round at Oran Park is on next weekend (31st October - 1st November), and I understand the Racing & Sports Car grid is nearing capacity of 30 or so cars. If you are interested in getting into the category for 2010, come and have a chat to the Radical, West, Minetti, Prosport, ADR etc owners and get a feel for what may suit you.

The Championship is also still up for grabs, and with half the field circulating in 1.12s or better, it should make for some exciting racing.

[Tony C]

I think that to have a sports car class running at a national level is a great idea (nothing against GT) they can go fast, look good, not be superceded overnight (GT) and allow a bit of Aussie 'clever' engineering. The bike engines are great to run, cheap and have an integral gearbox. I am not a fan of single seats because it is fun to take family or sponsors for a run without 'giving them the keys' so to speak. But there should be provision for all cars as long as each has a chance of winning.

[Sheep Stations]

Originally Posted by Tony C

It appears that you have not been listening to Mr Cochrane! there is only one category in Australia, or should be only one category. The rest of us know that they are only part of a broader community.

Its a pity that the rescue offer from GT was not accepted, at least then we would have a support category with some speed and international flavour instead of historic taxis with historic drivers.

Whoa!...at the risk of getting right off thread, I just need to make a correction here. The usual vernacular here with 'GT's is either Australian GT Championship or Garth Tander.

Neither had jack to do with the proposed support category for last weekends Super GP. All the support came from the actual competitor base of GT3 Cup Challenge, MX5's, Aust GT, and Prod Sports and put together by Queenslands CAMS sports car and club delegate....in a few hours.

When the Legends concept won the vote, it was quite ironic that the same person was asked to manage it...and did a great job.

To see those guys drive the museum pieces at a fair crack with tyres older than my kids and brakes that hadn't seen work for a decade or more was a real eye opener. No whining about camber or sway bar settings from these old boys. They are real drivers. Don't be disrespectful.

[ff s conscience]

So, anyway, yeah, My radical day out. I went to have a half day trial last Friday......

It was utterly fantastic from the very beginning to the end.

Sascha from the Classic Throttle Shop picked me up at the airport, in a 1973 911 S Targa, 2.4. One of 4 apparently, it was lovely. Cute ski rack bars on the roof. I don't think this service was part of the booking, but it was very nice to get!

He drove me out to the track and we got there about 11.30. I booked a half day trial, but was flexible in the timings so was hoping to get going asap and leave early. It turned out that wasn't possible but I spent the time before lunch absorbing and watching who was who and what was what.

It was a "driving solutions" day. So basically, almost all track cars only ( I saw 3 road cars). There were a dozen Radicals being run, and 2 of the Moslers from GT, and a 997 Cup S , and a couple of 360 Challenge etc etc. But it was a calm open pit lane day.... no rules... just go out when you like for as long as you like, with or without passengers.

I was to drive an older model Blue one. They're all basically the same, but newer ones have a higher nose and high downforce aero package. My one had the high DF wing, but none of the front end stuff to go with it. My one had the paddle shift conversion.


Me, being me, I looked over it, and decided the tyres were crap and the seat was too close. They politely declined to change the tyres (front right was grained) but moved the seat no problem. The cars are privately owned, so you can't be too pushy about what to expect.

I was presented with Niel Mcfadyen (sp) instructor. He briefed me on the controls, which are all pretty straight forward. I was told to shift on the second green shift light.

So I borrow a helmet and suit from the drive day organiser, and put on my new driving boots I went out and bought the day before (was getting excited!).

Neil says just go and do a lap or two and well see how it goes. There was an intercom, but I couldn't really hear much while lapping at speed. Too much ambient noise from his mic.

So, off I go, out of pit lane... I've been around as passeneger in a few cars, but not for 2 years and only for a lap at a time.

I build up to speed, the tyres come on pretty quickly. I do a couple of laps and then I have a slow spin at the hairpin after corporate hill.. Just holding on to the brake too long and gear shifting one too many. No drama, sort it out and away again. I came in and the timing screen said 1.44.2.

I was pretty happy with that as a sighting run to learn the track. I was lifting for turn one, and wasting lots of time at turn 4. Other than that, just generally a little slow and steady all over.

So I go out again, this time I'm determined to go flat through turn 1 and get under 1.40.... Having a good run out the last corner gets you up to 137 mph (on the dash) down the main straight... 220km/h... In the open air that's well fast enough to lift your helmet up an inch or two and buffet you around abit.... add to that the engine screaming with all the shift lights on as you pass the finish line, the car feeling positiively planted with all the downforce (despite the low DF front end and what I thought were crap tyres).... having the balls NOT to lift the throttle takes some effort... but I did it... and WOW, what a rush... T1 is slightly down hill, so the turning doesn't scrub off any speed at all, it took all the upper body strength I have to hold the turn... the steering loads right up and the over 2 G of cornering grip is amazing... then the run to turn 2 is still quite a way to go...

you arrive at t2 at VMAX, then you don't press the brake, or step on the brake, or squeeze the brake... you SMASH it, as hard as you can... the speed disappears and you stop the car while maintaining a little turn in to get to the tricky corner.... wow, that was another rush... full throttle for about 20 and VMAX for about 10 seconds...

the rest of the lap is equally exciting... T4 tricked me... i didn't get it right all day... I kept exiting too tight wasting maybe 1 second over just 2 corners.... I could hear noise on the intercom but couldn't make out what he was saying...

Corporate Hill is another mega place.... turn in very early and nail the throttle, turn at over 2 g for 3 seconds or more, then full power while turning still until IMMEDIATELY straighten it up at the same time as SMASHING the brake again..... just one split second too early on the brake and you have a big woopsie.... I had one spin here at about 100mp/h that was quite exciting!

Anyway, I ended up doing 44 laps. I had the 65kg instructor with me all the time. I knew his instruction was worth more than the weight saving if he got out. My best officially timed lap got down to a 1.37.7. The best in any radical on the day was a 1.33.5, but that was a newer car with one driver, using all the revs, with light fuel and good tyres.

After 4pm, the timing was turned off, and I did another session... I got t4 MUCH better and also improved generally, Neil said he thought it may have been a 1.36, possibly even a 1.35. I think 1.36 at best. He thinks 65kg is worth over a second and the tyres were well gone too.... but not as bad as I thought they looked.... you NEVER truly appreciate how much grip a good slick can give you until you've driven hard on them.... it's just mind blowing.

At the very end, I got Neil to drive me for a few laps... I was knackered, my arms and chest were aching so badly by now.

Neil did 2 flying laps, his best was a 1.34.5, timed by sascha on the pit wall. I could feel there was a bit of speed in using more revs than I had been permitted... neil used all the shift lights. He also changed the brake bias towards the front... I'd had 3 spins all from braking problems, so that felt reassuring to know it wasn't ALL my fault!

Then I got to go home! Sascha took me back to CTS, then I had to get a train to the airport as traffic was so backed up.. (I hate sydney).


All in all I was super happy with the day. My $2k was well spent, I had amazing fun AND learned heaps and heaps from Neil.

Trouble is, now I'm hooked...... what to do, oh what to do...............?

[scuderus]

Great stuff

Fun (and fast) arnt they!!!
Great description, Eastern creek suits these types of cars.

Cheers

[Silver 3]

Great write up ff--did you make sure they put fuel in it?!!!!

[ff s conscience]

yeah scuderus, they're VERY fast. The grip is huge and downforce is tangible, even for rusty old me.

Even the Horsepower was ok, quite exciting, without being intimidating. I'd like to try the V8 to compare.

Silver, yes THOSE ( ) guys know what they're doing with fuel....

It was full up when i got there, and they refilled it after ~30 laps. It was probably still about half full though they said. I can't see how they'd do 60 laps on one tank... but I'm really not sure.

They've got one car in stock, and they're in a hole with it as it was bought when the pound was stronger.

[Fast_Eddie]

Originally Posted by Holly Wood

Meanwhile, the new 'Supersports' category will apparently be racing at the Clipsal 500 in 2010... which is interesting.

A great thing for a new category, but let's hope there are enough cars for a full grid. I guess it can't be any more embarrassing than the 10 F3s they had last year...

There has been an excellent response to the Clipsal 500 opportunity from competitiors with sufficient deposits paid to date to ensure an impressive grid.

The entries consist of a mix of Radicals, Wests, Minettis, ADRs and others.

The regs that are currently being finalised for the category reflect the NSW MRC Sports and Racing cars category (minus the racing cars) that ran very successfully in 2009.

A preliminary information pack is being issued mid next week for those entrants that have paid deposits, and at that time I can expand more upon the Clipsal event, and other plans for 2010.

Reassuring for all, I trust, is the fact that the fledgling "national" style events such as Clipsal have been developed and programmed to align with the 2010 NSW MRC where the majority of these cars run, thus ensuring a balance of continued state level support and an opportunity for those seeking some "national event" buzz to do so without conflict of dates or vehicle configuration.

I am happy to receive any queries from those wishing to participate in the Clipsal support race who either have complying 2A, 2C or Category 6 cars or who are seeking a lease-drive opportunity.

Send me a PM and I can circulate the request to the relevant parties.

[Tony C]

I have read through the rules for 2A and 2C (there are no rules for class 6) andthe regs for the 2009 NSW series, and without being negative, the concept is a *******ised set of rules. When will CAMS rewrite the regs to suit the 21st century? Maybe call it proto sports to avoid the confusion.

I can see a great future for a sports car category in Oz using small (motorcycle) or under 2 litre car engines. They will be comparitively cheap to run, offer lots of bodywork for sponsors signs, and the 2 seaters can have sponsor rides.

But I suppose we would need to have ONE voice to get that through instead of the many we have now. Maybe this is an opportunity for the owners of 'modern' cars to move it forward. I hope Clipsal (and now PI) attract good car numbers. That way the spectators can see that you dont need a roof for good racing.

I know these comments will upset some.... but tough... bring it on.

[Falcadore]

The Nationals for 2C cars was held at Queensland Raceway and considering the numbers of cars currently running around the country and a new series for (some of) these cars next year the entry was desperately disappointing, just into double figures.