F1 SC flag rules

[Hepatic]

they mean all posts but as usual its written in a way that can be interpreted in several ways. i just think you shouldn't be asked to show a green when drivers are not allowed by the rules to "act" upon it ie. overtake again. With any luck the appeal and resulting investigation may help to clear some things up and may even get some common sense put back in to the way we are asked to use the green again. as woolley said, the americans use the SC a lot and seem to have it nailed, why can't the FIA follow them and share some best practice?

[exflagman]

Originally Posted by Hepatic

the americans use the SC a lot and seem to have it nailed, why can't the FIA follow them and share some best practice?

What - and admit that someone else other than the FIA can get things right! Come on its never going to happen.

A question or two, now that F1 has pretty lights as well as flags

Who controls the lights? Is it Race control, the flag marshal on the point or some computerised system - given that the drivers dashboard is also supposed to show the lights as well I assume some sort of automation is involved.

What takes precedence if the flags and lights are in conflict?

[TwoSheds]

Originally Posted by Bodysnatcher

Now then, flag marshals, do you get the call over the radio to deploy the green?

Yes.

Usually we will get a warning that the safety car is going to come in and also a warning when it is approaching the pit entry and as it enters the pits all posts are given a "GO GREEN" radio message.

[TwoSheds]

Originally Posted by Bodysnatcher

listen, the rules were written by lawyers for lawyers..
at one point in section 40, 40.7 references 40.15 as an exception, but 40.15 does not exist)

In the current sporting regulations (published 11/02/2010), 40.7 was corrected to refer to 40.14.

FIA link http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public...10-02-2010.pdf

Also noticed the document linked to on the MSA BGP Marshals page was updated to the correct version today. http://www.msaevents.co.uk/bgpmarshals.php

[Bodysnatcher]

thanks Tim, think that closes the case then.

Race control brings the safety car in on the last lap as per 40.13 so as not to spoil the photo opportunity of the finish.

Someone else in race control makes the call for the greens to come out.

Flaggies do as they are told (because we know what happens when you don't), put the green flag out and switch on the light panels.

Off go the drivers because they've seen green, have passed the first SC line & won't be aware of 40.13. Schumacher sees the opportunity as Alonso loses it & takes the position

40.13 no overtaking clause invoked by the man in race control that knew to bring in the safety car

Looks like one error - calling for green on a last lap safety car in -

PS wonder how IMS knew their version was incorrect?

[TwoSheds]

Originally Posted by Bodysnatcher

thanks Tim, think that closes the case then.

Race control brings the safety car in on the last lap as per 40.13 so as not to spoil the photo opportunity of the finish.

Someone else in race control makes the call for the greens to come out.

Flaggies do as they are told (because we know what happens when you don't), put the green flag out and switch on the light panels.

Off go the drivers because they've seen green, have passed the first SC line & won't be aware of 40.13. Schumacher sees the opportunity as Alonso loses it & takes the position

40.13 no overtaking clause invoked by the man in race control that knew to bring in the safety car

Looks like one error - calling for green on a last lap safety car in -

PS wonder how IMS knew their version was incorrect?

But does 40.13 apply in this case?

My own view is that is doesn't. The incident that caused the deployment of the SC had been cleared and the SC was being brought back in to go racing again, even if only for 200m. Had the incident not been cleared then yes, 40.13 would have applied (and the green flags and lights not displayed, yellows and SC boards would still have been out) , the SC car would have entered the pits with it's lights still on. Not sure whether the SAFETY CAR IN THIS LAP message on the timing monitors would have been given though.

Maybe a new message should be added for use when 40.13 applies, i.e. RACE FINISH UNDER SAFETY CAR, to make things clearer.

[White flag man]

Originally Posted by TwoSheds

But does 40.13 apply in this case?

My own view is that is doesn't. The incident that caused the deployment of the SC had been cleared and the SC was being brought back in to go racing again, even if only for 200m. Had the incident not been cleared then yes, 40.13 would have applied (and the green flags and lights not displayed, yellows and SC boards would still have been out) , the SC car would have entered the pits with it's lights still on. Not sure whether the SAFETY CAR IN THIS LAP message on the timing monitors would have been given though.

Maybe a new message should be added for use when 40.13 applies, i.e. RACE FINISH UNDER SAFETY CAR, to make things clearer.

So why not just drive the Safety Car across the line.
If you don't want it in the pictures, just tell the driver to put his foot down, it's hardly a Ford Fiesta

[Bodysnatcher]

Originally Posted by TwoSheds

But does 40.13 apply in this case?

My own view is that is doesn't. The incident that caused the deployment of the SC had been cleared and the SC was being brought back in to go racing again, even if only for 200m. Had the incident not been cleared then yes, 40.13 would have applied (and the green flags and lights not displayed, yellows and SC boards would still have been out) , the SC car would have entered the pits with it's lights still on. Not sure whether the SAFETY CAR IN THIS LAP message on the timing monitors would have been given though.

Maybe a new message should be added for use when 40.13 applies, i.e. RACE FINISH UNDER SAFETY CAR, to make things clearer.

You've nearly swayed me on this (ie incident cleared / not cleared being the trigger for the next action).

Sadly, the presence of rule 40.13 screws it all up.

Without 40.13 (ie lights out and into pitlane no race to the end), if the incident requiring SC is still live, in your scenario the SC lights stay on as it enters the pitlane then the procedure drummed into drivers is that you follow the SC into pitlane.

Would really screw up the photo op.

[TwoSheds]

Originally Posted by Bodysnatcher

You've nearly swayed me on this (ie incident cleared / not cleared being the trigger for the next action).

Sadly, the presence of rule 40.13 screws it all up.

Without 40.13 (ie lights out and into pitlane no race to the end), if the incident requiring SC is still live, in your scenario the SC lights stay on as it enters the pitlane then the procedure drummed into drivers is that you follow the SC into pitlane.

Would really screw up the photo op.

I realised after I'd posted this and done some more thinking (dangerous I know) that going into the pits with the SC lights still on would cause a problem, so if you just scrub that bit of what I said then it could work.

[roys1]

but where in the regs does it say they can start racing as soon as the green flags and lights go green.. It seems some are getting mixed up with the first sc line and the regs involving that.. It doesn't ..(unless someone can find it)

ps it was I that emailed the MSA letting them know they had the wrong link for the regs

[Hepatic]

Originally Posted by Bodysnatcher

Would really screw up the photo op.

and there was me thinking rules were there to keep the racing fair and safe, not to ensure a decent photo op

might have taken a while, but maybe this is retribution for a last lap stop & go transgression at Silverstone....!