WTCC Round 3 - Monza (ITA), 22/23 May - Page 2

kobefly · 23 May 2010, 14:47 (Ref:2696592)

First race was being good for Pern�*a until last lap when he lost the car.
Second race he managed to climb from 20th to 10th putting similar lap times to the other 3 Cruzes, well done Leonel!

**FIRE** · 23 May 2010, 17:36 (Ref:2696651)

Pernia did a good job.

Why did Chevrolet chose Pernia? In TC2000 he's a Honda factory driver. Would Ortelli or Ledesma not be more logical?

kobefly · 23 May 2010, 17:42 (Ref:2696655)

Quote:

Originally Posted by FIRE

Pernia did a good job.

Why did Chevrolet chose Pernia? In TC2000 he's a Honda factory driver. Would Ortelli or Ledesma not be more logical?

It was Victor Rosso (from Honda Racing Argentina) the one that did the contact to put an Argentinian driver in WTCC (they have the idea to make José Mar�*a López drive that car this season too).
Victor Rosso and Leo Monti (also from Honda) are trying to enter a Honda in WTCC for 2011.
I guess Chevrolet was the team to start negotiations because they have been invited to TC2000 200kms of Buenos Aires race all editions. Menú, Huff and other drivers have been coming to race here every year.

Hazard · 23 May 2010, 18:27 (Ref:2696680)

Quote:

Originally Posted by FIRE

Pernia did a good job.

Why did Chevrolet chose Pernia? In TC2000 he's a Honda factory driver. Would Ortelli or Ledesma not be more logical?

http://www.touringcartimes.com/article.php?id=4769

It's to allow Pern�*a to get his first experience of the WTCC before hopefully joining with Honda next year. They originally extended the offer to López, but due to calendar clashes he couldn't make it, so they decided Pern�*a was the next most logical man to have a go.

At least now he'll know Monza if it's on the calendar next year.

It's also worth noting Chevrolet Sweden ran the car, not RML - so that would also have a slight bearing on his performance perhaps, not underestimating them of course, but it's difficult for anyone to be as good as RML

redshoes · 23 May 2010, 20:29 (Ref:2696732)

Suspended 5 place grid drop for Menu
http://www.touringcartimes.com/article.php?id=4819

Bit harsh I thought, especially as Michelisz had admitted he braked earlier and shouldn't have been there anyhow if he'd taken his drive-through penalty for not even attempting to take the chicane on lap 1.

pinkd56 · 24 May 2010, 06:36 (Ref:2696921)

So, Jason Plato in the chevy for Brands then?

Bernard Bram · 24 May 2010, 07:00 (Ref:2696924)

Quote:

Originally Posted by redshoes

... for not even attempting to take the chicane on lap 1.

He wasn't the only one, was he? They should put a solid wall there or something that completely destroys the car, just for the start. Then everybody would adjust their breaking points. Or maybe not.

Craner Curves · 24 May 2010, 11:16 (Ref:2697070)

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinkd56

So, Jason Plato in the chevy for Brands then?

Which would be allowed this year, as we've already had the GP circuit BTCC round.

stedevil · 25 May 2010, 14:35 (Ref:2697890)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonanza

maybe evidence that some tracks (Morocco, curitiba) encourage boring racing, and the great tracks make for better racing (monza for example)

Indeed, several tracks should be scratched of the list. There certainly are tracks out there that provide good racing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sodemo

He has a TDi...

As does half the non indy grid (7 SEAT TDIs). Tarquini flew past or other TDIs as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bernard Bram

He wasn't the only one, was he? [cutting chicane on first lap]

Certainly not, but one of the few that actually got a penalty for it (even if several other gained places. Check out how eg Prialux ended up ahead of Farfus. I think they need to put some gravel or sand there, so people cutting across will at least have a clear disadvantage until the tires clean up.

Andy77 · 28 May 2010, 07:29 (Ref:2699739)

Quote:

Originally Posted by stedevil

Indeed, several tracks should be scratched of the list. There certainly are tracks out there that provide good racing. ...

I `d love to see them at Nordschleife, Spa, Suzuka and Bathurst but I fear that this is nothing more than a nice dream. Though the ETCC visited Spa back when they were on the bill of the LG Race Weekends together with FIA-GT

helterskelter · 28 May 2010, 10:35 (Ref:2699822)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy77

I `d love to see them at Nordschleife, Spa, Suzuka and Bathurst but I fear that this is nothing more than a nice dream. Though the ETCC visited Spa back when they were on the bill of the LG Race Weekends together with FIA-GT

Seeing them in the Nordschleife would be a bit hard, as they would only have 2 quick laps in qualifying and a 2-lap race (50 kms per race). I agree about the other tracks.
About the drivers cutting the chicanes, I think I understand you say that it's not completely the drivers' fault, as there's no clear disadvantage in cutting. If you say that, then I completely agree with you. On the other hand, Coronel did the same thing in Imola last year and there was the gravel on the outside, where he cut. So, that's not a solution, but maybe it makes things even more dangerous. So, in the end, I don't know if there's a solution. Get a chicane on a track and with touring cars it'll always happen that someone will try to cut it.
About Priaulx's cut, somebody complained, I think, and Priaulx and Mampaey were called by the stewards to explain the start. You can also check on fiawtcc.com (in the stewards' decisions) that there was no chance he could restore the situation. Also, he started 3rd and came out of it in 4th, I seem to remember, so he didn't gain much, did he?

stedevil · 28 May 2010, 12:48 (Ref:2699892)

Quote:

Originally Posted by helterskelter

Also, he started 3rd and came out of it in 4th, I seem to remember, so he didn't gain much, did he?

Well, Farfus started 1st, went in 3rd in the chicane and came out shared 5th-8th, behind to 2 people cutting and right along 3 other people, 2 of which also clearly cut the chicane.

Prialux in comparison started 3rd, (tried to) go in as 5th in the chicane, had to cut and ended up 4th. So he didnt gain much, but he also didnt lose much, which someone who didn't cut did.

But you are right that sand/gravel probably is more dangerous than a good solution.

But maybe the answer is to be found in how DTC do it? There, if you make an illegal pass, your are penalized with having to drive an extra, slightly slower, part of the track, that loses you maybe 1-2s. Enought to lose you 1-3 places, but not completely ruin your race like a stop and go in the pits do.

Craner Curves · 28 May 2010, 15:23 (Ref:2699985)

Or let them cut the chicane for the first lap of the race and then use it for the remainder? Rather like what happened at Rockingham in it's early days of road racing use.

Matt · 28 May 2010, 18:01 (Ref:2700065)

Quote:

Originally Posted by stedevil

But you are right that sand/gravel probably is more dangerous than a good solution.

gravel would be perfectly fine. Give me a good reason why it would be dangerous in that position. You'll be hitting it if you've not lost your brakes at about ~40mph. It'll slow the car down a lot and prevent chicane cutting.
If you blow the brakes coming in it'll also stop the car better than pavement.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy77

I `d love to see them at Nordschleife, Spa, Suzuka and Bathurst but I fear that this is nothing more than a nice dream. Though the ETCC visited Spa back when they were on the bill of the LG Race Weekends together with FIA-GT

I don't understand everyone's fascination with the Nordschleife. It would be a crap race, too narrow for anyone to pass really, and as someone already stated, a TWO lap race.

Put em on the Norisring. Non-stop action(If it's safe for the DTM guys, it'll be safe for the WTCC), and you'll actually get a decent race length(22 laps).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craner Curves

Or let them cut the chicane for the first lap of the race and then use it for the remainder? Rather like what happened at Rockingham in it's early days of road racing use.

Portland did that for a few years with the ALMS and ChampCar, worked beautifully.

However, knowing us, we'd just want them to not run the chicane at all, and make the track even faster. Imagine actually having to drive through the Curva Grande. Four wheel drifts through the corner, it would look spectacular.

Andy77 · 29 May 2010, 19:27 (Ref:2700536)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt

....I don't understand everyone's fascination with the Nordschleife. It would be a crap race, too narrow for anyone to pass really, and as someone already stated, a TWO lap race. ...

Maybe you should visit the place one day and do some tourist lapping just for yourself. The Nordschleife still is the the ultimate contest for men and machine. Very similar to the IOM TT for the bikers.

**FIRE** · 30 May 2010, 11:38 (Ref:2700801)

Nordschleife is the #1 circuit in the world.

Matt · 30 May 2010, 18:42 (Ref:2701194)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy77

Maybe you should visit the place one day and do some tourist lapping just for yourself. The Nordschleife still is the the ultimate contest for men and machine. Very similar to the IOM TT for the bikers.

Yes, but it's absolute **** to hold a proper race on. Trackday sure, but not a race. Cars are too wide nowadays.

There would be no passing.

Andy77 · 30 May 2010, 18:44 (Ref:2701196)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt

Yes, but it's absolute **** to hold a proper race on. Trackday sure, but not a race. Cars are too wide nowadays.

There would be no passing.

lol

NaBUru38 · 30 May 2010, 22:46 (Ref:2701388)

The Nordschleife is perfect for endurance races, poor for sprint races. Btw, are there any "super lap" / "time attack" competitions there?

Bernard Bram · 2 Jun 2010, 16:00 (Ref:2703296)

Quote:

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

Btw, are there any "super lap" / "time attack" competitions there?

Yeah, it's called Touristenfahrten

.

NaBUru38 · 2 Jun 2010, 22:26 (Ref:2703497)

Good joke, Bernie, but I of course meant legal competitions. With "launched laps" (that's Spanish), that is crossing the start at full speed.

Bernard Bram · 3 Jun 2010, 14:48 (Ref:2703878)

Not as far as i know, but i'm not really an expert in all things Nordschleife. If you google "veranstaltungen zeitfahren nordschleife" you only get hits for Gran Tourismo or Need for Speed pages.

JVD · 9 Jun 2010, 13:20 (Ref:2707252)

I'm looking forward to the next round of the WTCC, this will be at the always dusty track of Zolder!

Is there already an official entry-list for this event?

Hazard · 10 Jun 2010, 20:20 (Ref:2708640)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JVD

I'm looking forward to the next round of the WTCC, this will be at the always dusty track of Zolder!

Is there already an official entry-list for this event?

Yep
Entry List for Zolder

No surprises, two new cars for Radermecker & Corthals - rest are regulars as seen in Monza (minus Pern�*a)

JVD · 14 Jun 2010, 09:02 (Ref:2711731)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hazard

Yep
Entry List for Zolder

No surprises, two new cars for Radermecker & Corthals - rest are regulars as seen in Monza (minus Pern�*a)

Thnx! I think the two Belgium drivers will do it good at there home track!
Still hoping that Coronel wins!!!

I'll be in Zolder Saturday and Sunday, hopefully some good racing!

What can we expect from the Maserati MC Trofeo!?? (except a few spins from the Gentleman Drivers

)

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