HSCC Gold Cup Oulton Park

[oultonnewbie]

great weekend at cascades thanks to all involved, a great team and more friends made. looking forward to the tenth

[KayBee]

Originally Posted by Hepatic

best moment(s) of the weekend had to be watching Jon Minshaw rag the e-type around like it was a Saxo. The car must be worth a bit but throwing that around island on sunday and from the back of the grid to 2nd on Monday left me speechless.

He was just as good going into Knickerbrook especially on the first lap on Monday.

I also enjoyed the curtailed tussle between one of the white cortinas and the yellow one until the yellow one broke.

Also nice to make some new friends and thank you for all your help and I look forward to seeing you later this month.

[bigorangeoveralls]

totaley agree i was on deer leap on monday
cortina and the other car big impact both drivers
much respect how they treated each other
and loud apploses from spectaters modern drivers
take note
as for no lunce break i for one wont be marshling ever again
just got back to it after taking abreak for same reason
licence was handed in on monday

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by bigorangeoveralls

as for no lunce break i for one wont be marshling ever again
just got back to it after taking abreak for same reason
licence was handed in on monday

It's a fact of life that on the Monday of the Gold Cup the planned very short lunch break will in reality be more or less lost; everybody on my post accepted it as part of the price you pay for such a great race meeting.

Ah well, you've made your decision . . . looks like we'll have to try to manage without you!

[Gordon Knight]

Originally Posted by bigorangeoveralls

totaley agree i was on deer leap on monday
cortina and the other car big impact both drivers
much respect how they treated each other
and loud apploses from spectaters modern drivers
take note
as for no lunce break i for one wont be marshling ever again
just got back to it after taking abreak for same reason
licence was handed in on monday

Don't blame HSCC for the lack of a lunch break...there were more than enough marshals deployed for Post Chiefs to arrange a stand down in rotation. Everybody should & could have got a break. So next time instead of criticising a club that put on a fantastic meeting, albeit with a tight programme, have a go at the Post Chief about man management.

[vulcan607]

Originally Posted by Gordon Knight

Don't blame HSCC for the lack of a lunch break...there were more than enough marshals deployed for Post Chiefs to arrange a stand down in rotation. Everybody should & could have got a break. So next time instead of criticising a club that put on a fantastic meeting, albeit with a tight programme, have a go at the Post Chief about man management.

Thats not strictly true, we had less people on our post on the monday and therefore couldnt have people in all of the positions we had on the otherdays. There was no way people could have been stood down.

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by Gordon Knight

Don't blame HSCC for the lack of a lunch break...there were more than enough marshals deployed for Post Chiefs to arrange a stand down in rotation. Everybody should & could have got a break. So next time instead of criticising a club that put on a fantastic meeting, albeit with a tight programme, have a go at the Post Chief about man management.

. . . and I did make the offer to my team!

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by vulcan607

Thats not strictly true, we had less people on our post on the monday and therefore couldnt have people in all of the positions we had on the otherdays. There was no way people could have been stood down.

You may have had fewer people on your post on Monday but you can rest assured that whatever post you were on we've run it at some time with a much smaller team than you had!

I think you'll find that most Post Chiefs place a high priority on the welfare of their team. If anyone needs a break to buy food or a "comfort break" we can work around it. Nobody's indispensable!

[vulcan607]

I have no doubt that the posts can and have run with fewer people. I personally dont mind about having short lunch breaks i just enjoy the racing!

[M Greenslade]

Originally Posted by bigorangeoveralls

totaley agree i was on deer leap on monday
cortina and the other car big impact both drivers
much respect how they treated each other
and loud apploses from spectaters modern drivers
take note
as for no lunce break i for one wont be marshling ever again
just got back to it after taking abreak for same reason
licence was handed in on monday

Reading all these posts has made me feel rather guilty of neglecting the marshals at Knickbrook on Monday, all I can say is, my sincere apologies for not thinking about giving you guys in offering you any extra stand down time, I hope that if I got it wrong you will forgive me. I guess that I come from an age when we felt a little bit honoured to be marshalling, getting in to a meeting for free, getting the best seat in the house and feeling we had done a job well done without really even thinking we had been mistreated by the organising club. I guess I need to rethink how I man-manage the team, however perhaps those who really don't like the way things happen, it might be best if they just don't come again - interesting.........

Bladders.

[numbersix]

Now here's the thing.

Speaking generally, the morning session is usually practice/qualifying. The afternoon is usually racing. And Oulton has a curfew.

Any drivers screwing up in the afternoon will punish themselves with delays because the day cannot be extended. That sounds fair.

Drivers screwing up in the mornings? No problem, take it from the marshals. Let them suffer/argue amongst themselves/blame Post Chiefs and resign. After all, there's plenty more where they came from.

IMHO...

1. An Observer isn't a meal monitor.

2. Given the opportunity to stand down, most marshals won't (unless it's desperate) because of a misplaced sense duty or some notion of losing face/letting the side down. Actually I think that's rather nice. It sums up the kind of people we are but it can sometimes be cruelly taken advantage of.

3. Many marshals, due to the fine efforts being made at recruitment, are inexperienced and this makes the process of standing people down in groups rather difficult when safety is our highest priority.

4. Lunch breaks should not become some ridiculous game of musical chairs leading to marshals quitting and others blaming other marshals. It should have a minimum time set and be mandatory - written in the blue book. If drivers can't drive the loss of time is taken from the drivers in the morning as it is in the afternoon. To me that sounds fair.

5. I think clubs forget that marshals can be at a circuit for more than 12 hours and will spend most of that time standing, and/or pushing and heaving cars out of gravel traps; not to mention flagging until their shoulders ache. Incident marshals often spend the only gaps between sessions checking the track and even spend their lunches dressing oil slicks. Everyone else can sit! We do the most physical work by a country mile and we deserve some gratitude. Having the common courtesy to give us all some basic rest time is the least we should expect, and if we don't get it from the MSA then it should be from the clubs.

6. We're a team. All for one, one for all, and the loss of any one of us I regard as deeply regretful. And yes, I am a serial idealist.

[Mark Noble]

Originally Posted by M Greenslade

Reading all these posts has made me feel rather guilty of neglecting the marshals at Knickbrook on Monday, all I can say is, my sincere apologies for not thinking about giving you guys in offering you any extra stand down time, I hope that if I got it wrong you will forgive me. I guess that I come from an age when we felt a little bit honoured to be marshalling, getting in to a meeting for free, getting the best seat in the house and feeling we had done a job well done without really even thinking we had been mistreated by the organising club. I guess I need to rethink how I man-manage the team, however perhaps those who really don't like the way things happen, it might be best if they just don't come again - interesting.........

Bladders.

Don't worry, Martin, I had allowed for people to leave for the toilet as and when they wished on either day. I feel this is important on any meeting. There was enough of us to manage with one less for a few minutes, and thank you for an enjoyable weekend; glad you enjoyed your trip 'oop noorth'.
We come for the great racing, which was evident on all three days. And we do have many privileges as marshals; privileges that we shouldn't take for granted.


Anyway...great days on the bank, superb action, and let's not be feeling aggrieved/guilty/annoyed (delete as appropriate). Let's feel privileged and lucky that we can enjoy the sport in the way that we do!

[Ian Briggs]

Can see all sides of this one, standing down is nice, but isnt really a replacement for a hour, or 3/4 hour lunch.

But, the Gold cup is well known for tight timeing and short, if any lunches, thus its up to any marshal to vote with thier feet. Only volunteer for meetings with a relaxed timetable.

Anyhoo, we had a splendid couple of days throwing rally cars round the school, very very slippy all weekend, nearly as many tyre wall rebuilds as the main circuit!

[Shelagh]

Ian, is that your excuse for exiting very quickly in your landrover when we approached on Monday?

[Sparky-steve]

Originally Posted by numbersix

Now here's the thing.

Speaking generally, the morning session is usually practise/qualifying. The afternoon is usually racing. And Oulton has a curfew.

Any drivers screwing up in the afternoon will punish themselves with delays because the day cannot be extended. That sounds fair.

Drivers screwing up in the mornings? No problem, take it from the marshals. Let them suffer/argue amongst themselves/blame Post Chiefs and resign. After all, there's plenty more where they came from.

IMHO...

1. An Observer isn't a meal monitor.

2. Given the opportunity to stand down, most marshals won't (unless it's desperate) because of a misplaced sense duty or some notion of losing face/letting the side down. Actually I think that's rather nice. It sums up the kind of people we are but it can sometimes be cruelly taken advantage of.

3. Many marshals, due to the fine efforts being made at recruitment, are inexperienced and this makes the process of standing people down in groups rather difficult when safety is our highest priority.

4. Lunch breaks should not become some ridiculous game of musical chairs leading to marshals quitting and others blaming other marshals. It should have a minimum time set and be mandatory - written in the blue book. If drivers can't drive the loss of time is taken from the drivers in the morning as it is in the afternoon. To me that sounds fair.

5. I think clubs forget that marshals can be at a circuit for more than 12 hours and will spend most of that time standing, and/or pushing and heaving cars out of gravel traps; not to mention flagging until their shoulders ache. Incident marshals often spend the only gaps between sessions checking the track and even spend their lunches dressing oil slicks. Everyone else can sit! We do the most physical work by a country mile and we deserve some gratitude. Having the common courtesy to give us all some basic rest time is the least we should expect, and if we don't get it from the MSA then it should be from the clubs.

6. We're a team. All for one, one for all, and the loss of any one of us I regard as deeply regretful. And yes, I am a serial idealist.

some very interesting views here and i can agree with most of them and see your point for the rest.

it makes me think why are we losing so many experienced marshals?
is this sort of thing one of the main reasons?

I'm sure this isn't isolated just to Oulton Park or the Gold Cup, it must be a situation all over the country??

so who is it to blame?
the circuits?
the clubs?
the drivers?
the MSA?

and i feel Brian's leaving the orange behind is a personnel sadness, he took me and others under his wing when i first came on a walkabout day and guided us where we needed to go etc, and has been a orange friend ever since. really sorry to see you go mate, hopefully you might reconsider for next year..

[Hepatic]

Originally Posted by Ian Briggs

But, the Gold cup is well known for tight timeing and short, if any lunches, thus its up to any marshal to vote with thier feet. Only volunteer for meetings with a relaxed timetable.

Exactly the way i see it. I went because it has a special place in my calender. I know the HSCC put daft timetables on and accepted the fact we'd loose the lunch, but they don't have to do that.

Originally Posted by Sparky-steve

so who is it to blame?
the circuits?
the clubs?
the drivers?
the MSA?

Only people responsible for timetables are the clubs. Some are very good at putting them together, others not so. Thats probably why some marshals will follow certain clubs or avoid others. HSCC always cram the schedules, it gets value for money from the circuit hire but if the day doesn't run as planned then only slack is lunchtime.

You either live with it or vote with your feet. If avoiding them tho it's only fair and right to contact the club and explain why. If they don't know they are causing you to walk they can't take comments on board and maybe try to do something to improve it.

[Sparky-steve]

Originally Posted by Hepatic

You either live with it or vote with your feet. If avoiding them tho it's only fair and right to contact the club and explain why. If they don't know they are causing you to walk they can't take comments on board and maybe try to do something to improve it.

some how i don't think they would take any notice, as someone has already said why should they care about marshal welfare, they's plenty more new marshals coming along who will stand a post..

this seems scary to me, the lack of experianced marshals attending events seems to be on a sharp decline, we need new marshals and it's great that more are coming and they are always very much welcomed
but who's there to guide the new marshals along?
(this topic should really be moved to a new thread, as its gone beyond gold cup and Oulton Park...mod's how about it???)

[Hepatic]

Originally Posted by Sparky-steve

some how i don't think they would take any notice, as someone has already said why should they care about marshal welfare

eh? in my experience they do care, a great deal in fact. its a tough one to balance (cost, entertainment, breaks etc) but how can anyone know how well they do / don't do if all people do is whinge on an internet forum? some COCs frequent this place in a non-official way but you can't simply tattle on on here and expect anything to change.

televised events can be a whole different issue as it seems TV schedules come over and above anything else. In those cases i'd agree it's unlikely a club could get things changed even if you did contact them via the correct channels, but you still have to try. it's exactly what i did for the World Series by renault a few years back when the timetable alone only had a 20 min break scheduled. i sent the tickets back with a polite letter as to the reasons why. the way i see it is it's their loss, not mine.

[Sparky-steve]

Originally Posted by Hepatic

eh? in my experience they do care, a great deal in fact. its a tough one to balance (cost, entertainment, breaks etc) but how can anyone know how well they do / don't do if all people do is whinge on an internet forum? some COCs frequent this place in a non-official way but you can't simply tattle on on here and expect anything to change.

televised events can be a whole different issue as it seems TV schedules come over and above anything else. In those cases i'd agree it's unlikely a club could get things changed even if you did contact them via the correct channels, but you still have to try. it's exactly what i did for the World Series by renault a few years back when the timetable alone only had a 20 min break scheduled. i sent the tickets back with a polite letter as to the reasons why. the way i see it is it's their loss, not mine.

wwwwwooooooooooo hang on a sec here!

it's not me complaining about anything all i did was ask a question in responce to a statement, and quoted someone else in relpy to you..
i think i may be being misunderstood here...

to carry this on we need to meet up and have a debate over a pint or three