F-Schumacher - Page 2

Red · 14 Jun 2002, 10:46 (Ref:313411)

Oh come on, the Safety car helped Schumacher but ruined Ruben's race? What next?

Jordi · 14 Jun 2002, 10:50 (Ref:313414)

Well, certainly it did. Schumacher, with the heavier car, got closer to Barrichello with the safety car. I'm not saying who's better, but that the Safety hurt more Barrichello's chance than Schumacher's.

And I think Ferrari should have brought Barrichello in while the safety was out, just as Montoya did.

Red · 14 Jun 2002, 11:08 (Ref:313439)

Quote:

Originally posted by Jordi
Well, certainly it did. Schumacher, with the heavier car, got closer to Barrichello with the safety car.

You mean that the safety car helped Schumacher close the tremendous 3 seconds gap that he had to Montoya, 1 second behind Barrichello?

PS: Sorry for not being too clear: In my previous message should read Oh come on, the Safety car helped Schumacher (in 98, on an awkward strategy) but ruined Ruben's race? What next?

Glen · 14 Jun 2002, 11:13 (Ref:313444)

IF Rubens had done his job - and pulled ten or more seconds - then yea, the safety car would have screwed him.

**Bononi** · 14 Jun 2002, 12:33 (Ref:313499)

Quote:

Originally posted by Red
Oh come on, the Safety car helped Schumacher but ruined Ruben's race? What next?

Hurray !

Can we just stop making each race a conspiracy pro-TGF ?

RB complains about the safety car were genuine towards ruining his strategy. period.

The Ferrari politics about letting one or the other driver to win their 150 wins are fantasy. Anyway, they are employees and should obey orders

And Red... 2 latin americans driving the safety car... nice idea !

Gt_R · 14 Jun 2002, 12:46 (Ref:313513)

Erm..Jordi, i think who was first of the 2 Ferrari in Austria is not directly related to what we are discussing here.

The thing is, you and many think that Ferrari screwed up Rubens race by making him on a two stopper...your suspicious hightened that majority of the field ran a 1 stop. Red is just saying that in Austria, Ferrari also put their drivers on a different strategy to the rest bar one of the field, yet they pulled it off with great style...(ironical huh?

). But the point is, a different strategy doesnt mean a screw-up in what we see in Canada.

If anything, Rubens had in the post race conference stressed that the team and HIM discussed the options and decided TOGETHER to go for a 2stopper because Rubens preferred to go and try flat out for a win and not just tool around. The decision was supported by the fact that calculations actually show 2-stop strategy is theoretically the faster of the 2 strategies on offer.

Anyway, make a tiny correction..the reason why 2-stop strategy is an option in Canada this year is not because of track being shorter...but simply because of the change done to the exit of the pit...it totally bypass the first 2 corners, hence, saving plenty of time.

Mr V · 14 Jun 2002, 16:15 (Ref:313654)

Quote:

Originally posted by Gt_R

The thing is, you and many think that Ferrari screwed up Rubens race by making him on a two stopper

as i've said before on this topic, Rubens just isn't quick enough to pull off a race win, even if he had the faster stratergy! i personally don't think Ferrari screwed up Rubens race by putting him on this stratergy, however, i do believe that they may have known he was not fast enough. this may sound a little contradictory reading back through it so what i'm trying to say is, they gave Rubens the oppertunity to prove he could win, whilst all along, knowing that he proberly wouldn't acheive it,(due to his lack of pace) thus, ruining his own race.

Jordi · 14 Jun 2002, 16:53 (Ref:313670)

OK, OK, it was not that big of a gap...

but to say that Rubens isn't quick enough to pull off a race win, mr v... Well, he nearly won in Austria....

We all know how good Schumacher can be, but Barrichello is not that bad!

Mr V · 14 Jun 2002, 17:05 (Ref:313680)

i'll agree Jordi, Rubens did excel in Austria, but how many times have we seen him on the faster 2 stopper, only to not be able to go much faster than TGF or JPM, i can think of 3 occasions, where this has happened, Monza '01, Indy '01 and Canada last week.

and yes, i know that the pit stop ruined Rubens chance of the win ultimatley, but he should have been quick enough to get in and out of the pits even with the error by the mechanics!

Jordi · 14 Jun 2002, 17:08 (Ref:313684)

Well, in Indy'01 he was coming close to Hakkinen when the engine in the #2 Ferrari (how strange...) seized up..
But yes, in Monza he came second but Schumacher was not really racing...

Mr V · 14 Jun 2002, 20:58 (Ref:313903)

Quote:

Originally posted by Jordi
Well, in Indy'01 he was coming close to Hakkinen when the engine in the #2 Ferrari (how strange...) seized up..

correct, he was catching, and yes, he was very unlucky with his engine, but you have to remember that JPM would proberbly have won that race as opposed to Mika had his BMW not blown itself to smitherens, and yet again, Rubens was on a faster 2 stopper to JPM's and Mika's one stopper!

Quote:

Originally posted by Jordi
But yes, in Monza he came second but Schumacher was not really racing...

but he wasn't fast enough on a 2 stopper in a Ferrari that was overall a better car to beat JPM in a Williams on a one stopper was my point!

Jordi · 16 Jun 2002, 01:17 (Ref:314686)

What is the conclusion? Juan is fastest of 'em all!

Gt_R · 16 Jun 2002, 08:36 (Ref:314815)

How about Brazil 02?

In Monza, he WAS quick... he would seem to have been able with a VERY BIG possibility of winning that race... but hard luck for him. And there were times when putting him on a lighter stop actually benefitted... Hockenheim 2000 for one...

Mr V · 16 Jun 2002, 09:04 (Ref:314828)

Quote:

Originally posted by Gt_R

And there were times when putting him on a lighter stop actually benefitted... Hockenheim 2000 for one...

the lighter fuel load obviously did help GT_R, but i do you honestly think he would have won if it hadn't been for the nutter walking down the track, who brought out the safety car?

Red · 16 Jun 2002, 10:19 (Ref:314855)

Well, Mr V, the win was actually the cherry on the pie and not only the nutter, but the rain helped too. But given the position on grid, I believe that their goal was to get 1 point maybe 2 if they were lucky!

Jordi · 16 Jun 2002, 10:29 (Ref:314862)

Well, the best of that race for Rubens was not being afraid of running without rain tyres, while both McLarens came in.

Mr V · 16 Jun 2002, 10:47 (Ref:314868)

i'm not trying to take anything away from Rubens, Red, he drove a very good race, but it can't be denied that "the Nutter" helped, however, your point about the rain is also correct. Rubens showed his ability to drive in the damp on slicks (grooves). it was one of those strange races wasn't it, wet in the complex area, dry out the back, (or visa versa) and with Rubens and Mika on different tyres their lap times were roughly the same as each had an advantage followed by a disadvantage.

Gt_R · 16 Jun 2002, 11:08 (Ref:314875)

Hmm...dry weather tyres on the wet twisty bumpy track, and wet weather tyres on straights... the choice of who had more of a disadvantage is quite obvious wasnt it?

Just teasing... but the point of bringing Hockenheim is not the nutter, nor the rain... but the fact that on a lighter fuel strategy, Rubens can be more than sufficiently fast to beat the opposition.. not what you guys accuse of being "just slightly faster"

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