Spaceframe or Monocoque (split from MSNZ)

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by NZSTfan

Geez, a ST is a monocoque with a cage.....end of

TLX is a pure space frame car....end of

Its quite simple really

Not to some here, apparently...

[CDM]

Originally Posted by NZSTfan

Its quite simple really

And quite irrelevant to why this debate started.

We have established (and OMG everyone has actually agreed!!) the TLX is full spaceframed, and whether the V8ST is monoque, monoque chassis, , Semi monocoque-Unibody, Subframe, Semi subframe, Half chassis, Backbone chassis, ladder chassis, monoque-spaceframe, spaceframish or spaceframe is really irrelevant as I believe their franchise agreement has a clause that doesnt allow them to be used other than in V8ST events, but I’m sure Mark Petch can clarify this…

[NZSTfan]

Yes i cant see that an ST would be run in the enduros anyway. They are built for racing in the ST series, unless of course i am wrong and they are able to race in anything.

How about an ST rally car? (for the Giz and his upcoming assault on the NZ rally circuit of course!). Could look quite cool going sideways at 200kph in a rear wheel drive 7 litre V8. Dunno how it would look though with rally tyres on it

[Goat Boy]

I think the suggestion was more of a philosophical one, CDM. There is no chance of anyone running an ST in one of the SI enduros.

I was merely pointing out the irony of the Tulloch TLX car not being allowed to race in Inky's "local" race but an ST being able to enter if someone wanted to enter one. Which they don't.

[Bill Brown]

Originally Posted by CDM

And quite irrelevant to why this debate started.

We have established (and OMG everyone has actually agreed!!) the TLX is full spaceframed, and whether the V8ST is monoque, monoque chassis, , Semi monocoque-Unibody, Subframe, Semi subframe, Half chassis, Backbone chassis, ladder chassis, monoque-spaceframe, spaceframish or spaceframe is really irrelevant as I believe their franchise agreement has a clause that doesnt allow them to be used other than in V8ST events, but I’m sure Mark Petch can clarify this…

Not only that

The South Island Endurance rules state that it must be a series production car and then you have the issue of fuel capacity.

[Mark Petch]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Up close and personal with a V8ST...

Thanks GTR,

They say a picture is worth a thousand word's and this picture clearly shows the typical uni-body construction of so called "monocoque" production car's.

If somebody would put up some serious money, to make it all worthwhile, I could make some very easy money from those that think with out the elaborate roll cage, a V8ST would fall in halve or words to that effect.

Still as the saying goes, "there is none so blind as those that do not want to see"

[wnut]

Moncoque: an aircraft or vehicle structure in which the chassis is integral with the body. Oxford English Dictionary.

On that deinition Mark Petch is correct. It would appear a few tack welds / rivets / bolts would render any chassis a monocoque by definition.

Formula Ford are therefore monocoques!


Just because a rectangular tube is fabricated from flat sheet doesn't mean it is not a tube!

I agree with swedishbrick however there is no way known to man the body panels could be driven without the spaceframe, by racing usage of the term it sure looks like a clad spaceframe to me!

By definition however it would appear Mark Petch is right!

[Mark Petch]

Originally Posted by wnut

Moncoque: an aircraft or vehicle structure in which the chassis is integral with the body. Oxford English Dictionary.

On that deinition Mark Petch is correct. It would appear a few tack welds / rivets / bolts would render any chassis a monocoque by definition.

Formula Ford are therefore monocoques!


Just because a rectangular tube is fabricated from flat sheet doesn't mean it is not a tube!

I agree with swedishbrick however there is no way known to man the body panels could be driven without the spaceframe, by racing usage of the term it sure looks like a clad spaceframe to me!

By definition however it would appear Mark Petch is right!

I beg to differ, the chassis is well capable of capable of being assembled with out the roll cage and driven with or with out body panels.

However, its really a pointless argument, and I will say no more on the subject.

[Swedish Brick]

Originally Posted by Swedish Brick

So by adding a few steel sheets in the front welded into box section that makes the car monocoque?
What is the body doing? Do those B pillars have the inner panels adding strength and stiffness? In fact are those B pillars anything more than just the outer panel?
Is the roof adding torsional strength or is that coming from the extensive spaceframe structure in the car?
Can someone please show me where "the body serves as part of the structure"

So several pages on and no one can answer those questions which if it was a monocoque would be simple to answer.
Each to their own but that car is quite clearly a spaceframe to me. Having a box section part in the front doesn't change that.

[Jerico]

Originally Posted by Mark Petch

I beg to differ, the chassis is well capable of capable of being assembled with out the roll cage and driven with or with out body panels.

However, its really a pointless argument, and I will say no more on the subject.

Neither will I Mark, apart from saying that you are 100% correct.

[Woolley]

I think we're done on that one.