Spa Classic Touring cars

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by zefarelly

2 things Mike

Historic rallying seems to bear little historic about it, so not really a very good reference, Escorts seem to run just about anything with 4 cylinders that fit under the bonnet, even Vauxhall engines.

THe Blue Escort was French.

Yes and Yes.

[morninggents]

Originally Posted by zefarelly

Historic rallying seems to bear little historic about it, so not really a very good reference, Escorts seem to run just about anything with 4 cylinders that fit under the bonnet, even Vauxhall engines.

A friend here in the village rallies a Mk 2 Escort with a Vauxhall redtop engine but has to run in the 'modern' classes along with Escort Cosworths, Subarus, Evos and Pug 205s etc. Presumably a Mk 1 Escort with Vauxhall engine would have to do the same.

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by morninggents

A friend here in the village rallies a Mk 2 Escort with a Vauxhall redtop engine but has to run in the 'modern' classes along with Escort Cosworths, Subarus, Evos and Pug 205s etc. Presumably a Mk 1 Escort with Vauxhall engine would have to do the same.

Correct Peter. The HRCR regulate Historic categories strictly, almost too strictly, some would say.

[zefarelly]

I've always been of the opinion that if yu're desperate for a zetec and a rack in a Cortina . . . leave the poor things alone and go buy a Focus, its a much better car and cheaper. But some people just don't get it.

[Peter Mallett]

Yes, back in the day we put 1500s in Anglias or Cortinas etc. But sticking Zetecs or Vauxhall engines into an old Ford makes no sense to me.

[morninggents]

I tend to agree with you about the Escort with Vauxhall engine thing but my friend with the Mark 2 Escort had a 1800cc BDA fitted but eventually blew it and his choices were:

Give up rallying but he wanted to continue.
Rebuild engine but couldn't afford the cost.
Build complete new modern age car but couldn't afford it.
Slot in a powerful but relatively cheap modern alternative engine - bingo!

He's still rallying several years on in a car that's well developed and gives him loads of fun.

[terence]

Considering the return you get in bhp from just fitting a pair of webers,makes sence really,excluding FIA though.

[Duddha]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

I'm back and disagree! This is my take- The car cannot be a Gp2 RS1600 (which is what it was entered as) and have a Pinto based Holbay engine of 2litres or any other capacity. That spec does not appear in the RS1600 homologation papers.

BUT as you say Ford did include it on the RS2000 papers, even though there is no evidence I am aware of that it was used in period in a MK1 RS2000. Sadly we seem to be reaching a situation with the FIA where parts can be used even though no period proof is available. also, if an Escort is to be presented with this engine, it should also conform to other RS2000 homologation, which will include 20mm thick brake discs, bubble arches only and no front spoiler. I would need to clarify the use of a ZF 5speed g/box as this is included and then crossed out on the homologation papers.

Further to the above, I have been advised that new 'Holbay' engines can be built using an American 2.3 litre bottom end and give 300bhp! This is something that organisers will need to be aware of if more cars are presented with this engine type. One car is being built with 'Holbay' lump in the UK at present.

My RS1600 may not be period but is fundamentally period correct. Naturally it is the organisers perogative to accept cars or refuse them, but it would be disappointing to see a promising intitial race turn into a series for a mismatch of cars. But as ever I will vote with my feet when the time comes!

Hi Mike,

I agree with you the car wasn't a Gp2 RS1600. And that's my mistake on the entry list.

As said by the owner of the car, the car was built using a loophole as there are no proof that the part was used in period, even if it's in the FIA Homologation form.

For the other stuff on the car such as the gearbox, I would say that it's like other cars and FIA Form, unclear.

Regarding the new "Holbay" engine being built, I know it and fortunatelly at the moment, I think Claude's car is the only one arround (at the moment).

As you said, we can accept or refuse the cars but of course as it was a first time for us and touring cars, we're learning the little subtilities of the touring
car category.

And don't hesitate to discuss it directly with us as well !

PS: The car you are discussing is French but we treat everyone the same way.
And the ones who know me from l'Age d'Or will understand I'm 50% English.

[terence]

As far as FIA "compliant" cars go,there are far too many 'loopholes'.

[Hunter1300]

Originally Posted by terence bower

As far as FIA "compliant" cars go,there are far too many 'loopholes'.

But this is motorsport there are loop holes and people exploit these holes, and they will continue to do so till even I am long gone.....

blatant cheating, exploiting loop holes...... all boils down to one very simple fact.

Ethics......

I for one wouldnt build or race a car i knew was illegal, Iv being racing in some form for 14 years on an off and can honestly say Iv never knowingly done anything that was even remotely marginable with relation to the rules, I know people that have a win at all cost attitude even if it means breaking bending shaping the rules......
This isnt a FIA histerics issue its a Motorsport wide issues.

I think the big thing for Grp 2 grp A and grp 1 cars at the moment is to get cars out there but encourage the cars to be more period correct or in keeping with the spirit. lets face it several UK Grp 2 cars arent remotely period legal but without these on the grid where would the series be..... It surely needs to be a fine balance.

Its just my view anyway...... an im open for criticism on my views.

[terence]

Originally Posted by Hunter1300

But this is motorsport there are loop holes and people exploit these holes, and they will continue to do so till even I am long gone.....

blatant cheating, exploiting loop holes...... all boils down to one very simple fact.

Ethics......

I for one wouldnt build or race a car i knew was illegal, Iv being racing in some form for 14 years on an off and can honestly say Iv never knowingly done anything that was even remotely marginable with relation to the rules, I know people that have a win at all cost attitude even if it means breaking bending shaping the rules......
This isnt a FIA histerics issue its a Motorsport wide issues.

I think the big thing for Grp 2 grp A and grp 1 cars at the moment is to get cars out there but encourage the cars to be more period correct or in keeping with the spirit. lets face it several UK Grp 2 cars arent remotely period legal but without these on the grid where would the series be..... It surely needs to be a fine balance.

Its just my view anyway...... an im open for criticism on my views.

In most ways I agree,but what if the organisers had been strict in the first place,not turned any blind eyes to any mates? Would have been completely different had that been the case.

[Mike Bell]

Thanks to Alex E for pointing me in the direction of Sports Car Digest's photos of the event. They really highlight the quality of all the grids present, although the photographer does seem to have a slight bias towards CSLs when snapping touring cars!

REPORT HERE

Few days ago bumped into my workshop ex-neighbour. Ian worked for Broadspeed in the 70s and on seeing Canary all scruffy with lamps fitted related some of the trials and tribulations of running a Broadspeed RS1600 at Spa 24hrs in 1972! Sounded like hard work. When I mentioned the gorgeous Douglas Titford owned 'Kent' RS2600 Capri that was at Spa he then told me some stories of building and running the car in period. Really need to sit down with him over several beverages one day and just listen......

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

Few days ago bumped into my workshop ex-neighbour. Ian worked for Broadspeed in the 70s and on seeing Canary all scruffy with lamps fitted related some of the trials and tribulations of running a Broadspeed RS1600 at Spa 24hrs in 1972! Sounded like hard work. When I mentioned the gorgeous Douglas Titford owned 'Kent' RS2600 Capri that was at Spa he then told me some stories of building and running the car in period. Really need to sit down with him over several beverages one day and just listen......

Yes indeed, make it somewhere inbetween the Mids and your neck of the woods so I can come too!!

[zefarelly]

http://salon.io/stefanmays/spa-classic-racing

[Mike Bell]

Nice find Joe. Thanks, goes to reinforce my comment about the quality of the cars at Spa!

[Cliff Ryan]

Yep, good find Joe

[zefarelly]

Louis pointed me there, some great snaps.

this on I like . . .

'You can't get the parts or the staff, whats a team boss supposed to do!'

[gary396]

Motors TV are currently showing a 30min prog covering the Classic - includes a brief shot of Zef's Cortina in action. No doubt repeated a few times in the coming days.