[Official] Rate the race: Abu Dhabi Grand Prix

[Moneyseeker]

I didn't watch it but found even reading about it dull!

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Man, it must have been seriously dull 'back in the days' if that was 80% of the best race you can contemplate.....

(And yes, sometimes it was dull - and I dare say I moaned about it then too, but I can't really remember the 'battle' (ha ha) at the pointed end of the races being this dull for a very long time.....).

No, we don't have cars battling for the lead like in seasons long past, but that's not the fault of F1.

The problem is that Vettel doesn't have a team mate who can push him into making any mistakes. I also think that a larger problem is that no one could beat Vettel in the other RBR car, anyway. They would struggle to be much better than Webber is when the red lights go out. Of course, the much, much, much larger problem is that the other teams have failed to build a car that can take on the car built by the soft drinks company.

You can't blame F1 if it's the competitors that are at fault.

My prediction is that the next two races will be equally dull if Red Bull, and Vettel, do again what their competitors have so far failed to do i.e. provide the cars, and drivers, that are up to the job of giving Red Bull and Vettel a run for their money.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by Marbot

You can't blame F1 if it's the competitors that are at fault.

until the financial playing field is equalized i feel pretty good with laying a good chunk of the blame with FOM.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Marbot

The problem is that Vettel doesn't have a team mate who can push him into making any mistakes. I also think that a larger problem is that no one could beat Vettel in the other RBR car, anyway.

I can't say I can buy into that one as I don't necessarily accept that Vettel is indisputably the best driver currently in F1. But he is undoubtedly the best driver in a Red Bull.

But I also accept that you can't blame RBR for being totally dominant.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

until the financial playing field is equalized i feel pretty good with laying a good chunk of the blame with FOM.

Ferrari get a couple of hundred million a season from Philip Morris. You can't blame that on FOM. Ferrari would also refuse to play ball unless it got a larger handout, from FOM, than the other teams do (around $17m).

How is there ever going to be a level playing field unless someone comes up with something like a budget cap.......Oh, that's right! Ferrari and Toyota didn't want one, only Toyota didn't realise that, during a recession, lots of people still bought Ferrari's.

[JeremySmith]

Rubbish.. I thought

[Oldtony]

OK! Enough! We want F1 to provide excitement, tension, unexpected results and displays of outstanding talent.
Suggestion to FOM.
Let's broadcast Bernie's court cases with the highlights being provided on QCCam to show the inspired performances of the best operators in the business.

[Grandpa_Rob]

5 for the track layout & presentation 2 for the race = 7

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by Marbot

Ferrari get a couple of hundred million a season from Philip Morris. You can't blame that on FOM. Ferrari would also refuse to play ball unless it got a larger handout, from FOM, than the other teams do (around $17m).

im being pedantic but i thought you were talking about competitors plural not just Ferrari.

i suppose for me its hard to find too much fault with the teams who are only capable of spending 25%-50% of what the top teams are so naturally some of the blame (a majority of it even) for me goes to those who negotiate the commercial deals which allow such a disparity in budgets to exist in the first place. maybe a better way to put it is to call it a failure of leadership.

certainly you can say if FOM did this to prevent Ferrari from leaving...well if Ferrari leaving means we have seasons like this then we have already seen the worst of it.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

im being pedantic but i thought you were talking about competitors plural not just Ferrari.

Ferrari, like the other 'well heeled' of F1, are only in it for themselves.

Originally Posted by chillibowl

i suppose for me its hard to find too much fault with the teams who are only capable of spending 25%-50% of what the top teams are so naturally some of the blame (a majority of it even) for me goes to those who negotiate the commercial deals which allow such a disparity in budgets to exist in the first place. maybe a better way to put it is to call it a failure of leadership.

Rather surprisingly, each team that finishes in the top ten gets around $40m (from a primary fund of around $400m) each from FOM. But you only get this if you finish in the top ten for 2 seasons in a row. Then there's about a similar amount of cash (secondary fund) that is shared out according to the order the teams finish in, and Ferrari gets its 'long service' bonus payment on top of that.

Originally Posted by chillibowl

certainly you can say if FOM did this to prevent Ferrari from leaving...well if Ferrari leaving means we have seasons like this then we have already seen the worst of it.

Having watched other F1 "seasons like this" for many decades, I'm not really sure what you mean by that?

[andy666]

Originally Posted by Beryl

Whether you like the DRS or not, there's more overtaking in the "pirelli era" than any other in the history of F1. There's also far more cars finishing on the lead lap and the cars are as close to each other in performance as they've ever been. You might not like what it is specifically, but you can't deny there's more on-track action then there's there's been in a while, if ever. I remember when there was sometimes more engine blowups in a race than there were overtakes.

This race was pretty interesting. The top 4 were set after Webber overtook Rosberg, but 5th-10th were constantly in flux and there was action on track between Hamilton, the Ferraris, the Saubers, the Force Indias and Perez. Not a great one but certainly worth watching, and the cars looked great under the artificial lights too.

More overtaking in the Pirelli era ? The same era as DRS was introduced , and for me a DRS overtake is not an overtake . The cars are as close to each other in performance as they`ve ever been , how many seconds did Vettel win by in Singapore and Abu Dhabi ?

[Adam43]

Statistically I bet that is right. Those kind of winning margins were the norm.

I make no comment on whether it is achieved in a good way, but the fans have got what we asked for when F1 was too dull. Remember those surveys? *sigh* they listened.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Statistically I bet that is right. Those kind of winning margins were the norm.

I make no comment on whether it is achieved in a good way, but the fans have got what we asked for when F1 was too dull. Remember those surveys? *sigh* they listened.

I would rather the present than back to:

1 : fewest overtakes in a dry race - 2006 San Marino GP [Imola], 2002 Hungarian GP [Hungaroring], 2002 Japanese GP [Suzuka], 1998 Monaco GP [Monaco]
4 : fewest overtakes in a wet or varied race - 1996 Spanish GP [Catalunya]
0 : zero overtakes in a race - 2009 European GP [Valencia], 2005 United States GP [Indianapolis], 2003 Monaco GP [Monaco] from http://cliptheapex.com/overtaking/

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Yep watching cars fly by each other on the straight is thrilling. Who needs all that boring strategy that required an actual attention span.

[Pontlieue]

Originally Posted by wnut

I would rather the present than back to:

1 : fewest overtakes in a dry race - 2006 San Marino GP [Imola], 2002 Hungarian GP [Hungaroring], 2002 Japanese GP [Suzuka], 1998 Monaco GP [Monaco]
4 : fewest overtakes in a wet or varied race - 1996 Spanish GP [Catalunya]
0 : zero overtakes in a race - 2009 European GP [Valencia], 2005 United States GP [Indianapolis], 2003 Monaco GP [Monaco] from http://cliptheapex.com/overtaking/

It's not that easy. You can't measure the quality of a race by the number of overtakes. Wasn't Imola 2006 the race when Alonso tried to get past Schumacher for many laps? About your other examples: Indianapolis 2005 had only 6 cars, four of which were Minardis and Jordans. Monaco is just Monaco, even DRS doesn't help there. And since 2011, we had races with lots of overtakes, which were still boring. So overtaking alone doesn't make a race exciting.

[Adam43]

The point is back then people were doing just that. They were complaining that F1 was boring because there was no overtaking. They got a solution. Now people (the same ones or different ones?) are complaining again.

Hey maybe the rule makers did it the wrong way? However they did try, but get no credit for that. As such it comes across a little as you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. It also comes across, rightly or wrongly, as just whinging. I'm struggling to separate real considered objections to just whinging.

[Paradise City]

The point is to improve the sport. That's the end-goal. Not to wreck the sport whilst waving a silly poll and shrieking 'it wasn't me gov'.

And all this DRS stuff is here not at the command of the fan that they so diligently listened to but to rake in the cash from the unwashed masses who like a quick thrill. CVC getting an extra dividend is the line of thinking here.

[Adam43]

The point is repeated. I meant one point made, not the whole thing. Should have made that clear.

So was it the wrong kind of fan? People complained it was boring. They did, I remember, it was a tedious as the racing. Were those people good fans and they just didn't get what they wanted? They ended up with a solution for some other group of fans?

I am interested, because as far as I can see and at least in the age of the internet F1 has always sucked. The reasons have developed, but ultimately it is because it is boring for some reason. Dominance, contrived rules to stop dominance, no overtaking, contrived rules to help overtaking, tyres that are too hard, tyres that are too soft, Schumacher, Vettel, something. Man it is dull and always has been

Whatever, it might be for the wrong fans, but they did try and do something about the no overtaking. Perhaps they should stop listening. yes, I'm being silly, but I do find it a little amusing.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Adam43

The point is repeated. I meant one point made, not the whole thing. Should have made that clear.

So was it the wrong kind of fan? People complained it was boring. They did, I remember, it was a tedious as the racing. Were those people good fans and they just didn't get what they wanted? They ended up with a solution for some other group of fans?

I am interested, because as far as I can see and at least in the age of the internet F1 has always sucked. The reasons have developed, but ultimately it is because it is boring for some reason. Dominance, contrived rules to stop dominance, no overtaking, contrived rules to help overtaking, tyres that are too hard, tyres that are too soft, Schumacher, Vettel, something. Man it is dull and always has been

Whatever, it might be for the wrong fans, but they did try and do something about the no overtaking. Perhaps they should stop listening. yes, I'm being silly, but I do find it a little amusing.

Adam43, I think that the final straw was Alonso's Ferrari trapped behind Petrov's Reanualt at Abu Dahbi in 2010. You had a Alonso who qualified at 1:39.792 trapped behind Petrov who qualified at 1:40.901. Petrov's true pace was more than 2 seconds slower than Alonso's, yet Alonso who was behind Petrov because of a pit stop was forced to spend the rest of the race behind him. This ruined the final of the WDC showdown between Alonso and Vettel, who won, and it was plain that something had to be done!

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by wnut

Adam43, I think that the final straw was Alonso's Ferrari trapped behind Petrov's Reanualt at Abu Dahbi in 2010. You had a Alonso who qualified at 1:39.792 trapped behind Petrov who qualified at 1:40.901. Petrov's true pace was more than 2 seconds slower than Alonso's, yet Alonso who was behind Petrov because of a pit stop was forced to spend the rest of the race behind him. This ruined the final of the WDC showdown between Alonso and Vettel, who won, and it was plain that something had to be done!

F1 had already seen one fix to its problems at the Canadian F1 GP of that same year. Cars had to pit multiple times for new tyres, rather than pit on lap fifteen to twenty as was predictably the case for most races during that season.

I too remember that particular race and Alonso's fury at Petrov for not letting him overtake! Some people have such short memories.

[Knowlesy]

Originally Posted by wnut

I would rather the present than back to:

1 : fewest overtakes in a dry race - 2006 San Marino GP [Imola], 2002 Hungarian GP [Hungaroring], 2002 Japanese GP [Suzuka], 1998 Monaco GP [Monaco]
4 : fewest overtakes in a wet or varied race - 1996 Spanish GP [Catalunya]
0 : zero overtakes in a race - 2009 European GP [Valencia], 2005 United States GP [Indianapolis], 2003 Monaco GP [Monaco] from http://cliptheapex.com/overtaking/

And there we are. You can prove anything with stats.

This is not to say there weren't any painfully dull races. But there are a few examples in there that were gripping races and some that were just plain anomalous.

2006 San Marino - brilliant fight between Alonso and Schumacher

1998 Monaco GP - well, it was much better than this year's installment.

1996 Spanish GP - a wet weather masterclass.

2003 Monaco GP - an exciting race.

2005 US GP - hardly relevant. And I would say the same about Valencian races too, because they simply don't provide a platform for a good race.

I give you Hungary 2002 though. I vomited profusely after that race and begged people to kill me. Many volunteered.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Marbot

F1 had already seen one fix to its problems at the Canadian F1 GP of that same year. Cars had to pit multiple times for new tyres, rather than pit on lap fifteen to twenty as was predictably the case for most races during that season.

The Canadian race that year was rated as follows

Rating /10	Votes
10	11
9	40
8	28
7	11
6	3
5	3
4	nothing
3	nil
2	zero
1	zip

http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...=Canadian+rate

Again I make no comment about whether it was the right thing to do. In understanding why they went this way it is interesting. The fan feedback was that it was a great race, they devised a way to get that more often.

[Knowlesy]

I probably gave it a ten myself. It was a great race, but that was because it was abnormal and nobody really knew what was happening, Bridgestone included. It was genuine.

[Adam43]

Oh yes, I agree with that. However after years of being berated for dullorama GP, they get one like that everyone goes giddy and someone realises that you can chose to have this.

If we want F1 to be a true sport we have to accept that it can be boring. As this year has demonstrated through one persons dominance this is unacceptable. If we hadn't had the tyres and DRS then it would have been more like that through the field.

I'm glad I'm not responsible for theming to achieve the right balance. Especially as I don't feel there is a balance. It is hated somehow whatever.

Yes, you gave it ten