Will this spell the end of Americans volunteering for Canadian GP?

[TrueBlueFlyer]

Considering we don't do any crane training... save for a few flagging and fire schools that only happen once every two or four years if you live in the right part of the country? (ie not every track)

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montre...eath-1.2417350


I keep saying this but Singapore takes all its incident marshals to the Manitou facility where hands on training is provided... not just watching others, but everyone gets to put their hands on the cars in a recovery situation.


UK was the best example I've seen of marshals performing a recovery, both in practice and under race conditions, with very experienced manitou driver and hooker, doing a textbook job. The vehicle was hooked correctly, only one person balanced the car, and the driver went at a slow pace so as not to swing the vehicle which was the concern expressed in the Canadian article where people were running at 11 km/h.


Why can't training be standardized? Surely there's money for something as basic as that from the top... FIA or ACCUS in USA's case.

[Robin_D]

I couldn't agree more. I've heard that something is looking at being done at Silverstone this coming year with a training element in hooking up vehicles and despite that being a regular role that I undertake, I would welcome more training.

Never stop learning!

[Peat]

Never worked with a fork-lift in a snatch situation, but have used them for years in agricultural settings.

I was just thinking, is there any reason NOT to have some kind of wrap-around bumper/wheelguardon the forklifts? The exposed nature and style of tread of the tyres will tend to drag things/people under effortlessly. Perhaps some sort of guard would prevent the back of a leg being caught in the first place?

When they are used at tracks, is there a requirement for them to handle extreme terrain? If not then it could be a go-er.

[deadsquirrel]

My view would be that North America will just bring in professional rigger crews and not use volunteer marshalling types.

This will just reverse the problem, since you'll have crews who are not used to working with 'live' traffic around and certainly no racetrack understanding. I've seen equally alarming situations caused by this type of crew being trackside without permission, etc,etc.

It was a tragic event, we must learn from it, but I suspect it's one more role that will be professionalised because of the risk of being sued.

[Greem]

Telehandlers like these have been used at Donington all year (and part or all of last year, if I recall correctly). The local I/O and snatch folks were all trained at the beginning of the year about their specific peculiarities, what to do, and what not to do. Generally speaking, everyone else keeps out of the way so the driver and snatch person only have each other and the car to look out for.

And yes, they are used on rough terrain - fetching trapped cars from gravel traps or other obstacles - so wheel guards would likely defeat the object of having that type of wheel/tyre.

From reading the reports, it seems to me that the single most significant factor was the fact that the recovery was being rushed as a result of the track invasion. That in itself is a learning point.

[deley]

When you do this sort of recovery week in, week out as we tend to then it certainly helps.

[Steve Fox]

It is done slightly differently at Brands. Every time there are telehandlers used all the Marshals from the post(s) served by them are shown how to hook up, what the gear looks like, which strops to use for which type of car, which configuration the machine will be in for each type of car etc. The briefing only lasts about 10 minutes, although the operators are always happy to show you more, but by the end of the season a regular incident Marshal may have done an hour or twos training on telehandlers.
I really should have a go at driving one, that would certainly give me an insight that I think I don't want!

[McSatan]

The last training session I attended at Brands included hands on slinging vehicles, a saloon and a Formula Ford if I recall correctly. Plus hands on briefing at actual meetings, surely that's about as good as it gets?

[TrueBlueFlyer]

Originally Posted by deadsquirrel

My view would be that North America will just bring in professional rigger crews and not use volunteer marshalling types.

This is already the case for IndyCar and ALMS events.... the Manitou operator is supplied with the Manitou... often they have little to none race situation experience.


Meanwhile recoveries/snatches/hookers are the paid crews like the IndyCar Holmatro crew and ALMS Safety Crew. For many American pro events the F&C crews (us regular volunteer marshals) are already limited to doing Flags & Communication... and not allowed to go trackside without specific instructions from race control. However the week in and week out SCCA events are run completely differently, but even there most tracks provide their own safety crews that in one way or another recover vehicles. Usually without our help.

[katrina.kershaw.7]

Originally Posted by Steve Fox

It is done slightly differently at Brands. Every time there are telehandlers used all the Marshals from the post(s) served by them are shown how to hook up, what the gear looks like, which strops to use for which type of car, which configuration the machine will be in for each type of car etc. The briefing only lasts about 10 minutes, although the operators are always happy to show you more, but by the end of the season a regular incident Marshal may have done an hour or twos training on telehandlers.
I really should have a go at driving one, that would certainly give me an insight that I think I don't want!

True, found it very informative at dtm. At silverstone have found normally just the hooker gets shown straps etc but the driver quite happy to talk about variations etc

[leftandright]

article refers to using a short strap to help in stabilizing the car from swinging, not sure if those were provided to the hookers at last years' USGP. So 1 person generally is all that is needed to stabilize the car once lifted and enroute to a safe location?

[EnglishPaddy]

. . . anyone see the recovery of the car after Q2 yesterday.
Pretty much the same errors repeated

C.

[Tall Chris]

Originally Posted by EnglishPaddy

. . . anyone see the recovery of the car after Q2 yesterday.
Pretty much the same errors repeated

C.

It didn't look too good recovering Perez's car, no strops at all, running in front of the telehandler . . . . . .