NZ Tintop future?2017-->

[GHOGH]

NZ has a 'GTR" series run as GT1/GT2 and GT3/GT4

http://www.gtrnz.co.nz/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GT4_European_Series
http://gt4series.com/
(I have included the European GT4 definitions to clarify the earlier post on European GT4.)

[Mark Petch]

Originally Posted by GHOGH

NZ has a 'GTR" series run as GT1/GT2 and GT3/GT4

http://www.gtrnz.co.nz/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GT4_European_Series
http://gt4series.com/
(I have included the European GT4 definitions to clarify the earlier post on European GT4.)

Hi GHOGH,

I think FIRE is referring to the FIA GT3 and GT4 categories.

I think the recent NZ Endurance Championship shows just how few FIA GT3 cars there are in New Zealand, at most there are ten FIA GT3 cars of various ages, specification's etc, so other than Endurance racing, true GT3 as in adhering to the FIA BOP formula, is probably never going to happen in New Zealand as a domestic Series.

GT4 cars are less expensive, but still well in excess of NZ$250,000 and slower than the current crop of V8 Touring car's, which are now comparatively cheap second hand, at around $125K for a good V8ST car.

I believe as the owner of a FIA GT3 car that, the only way forward for Touring cars in New Zealand is for MSNZ to properly understand what is required to encourage and support a new parity based Touring Car category using the current V8ST and TLX cars as the baseline in terms of performance criteria.

Sadly, I think MSNZ lacks the knowledge, expertise, and resources to make this happen.

[goldedge]

Imagine this large fields with mixed classes, accurate time based handicapping (starting positions) faster cars to start at the rear based on individual times, staggered light driven starts to eliminate the obvious current futility of starting at the rear in a large field?

General concept is that if your car can lap 1 second faster than another you start one second behind off the grid and so on down the field.

Easily done with todays electronics data systems, this could result in close even racing,
large entry fields, good spectator experience and income for the circuits and a more even playing field for the racers.

Thoughts?

Michael

[GHOGH]

Just to comment on one point. Spectator experience - as illustrated in this vid from the recent D1NZ at Pukekohe, the cars disappear behind the fences after the front straight, there is only the tyre smoke to indicate the positions of the cars.
https://youtu.be/cxMkTO7vLpw?t=4m17s
Would touring cars require coloured aerials (etc) to indicate their positions to the spectators.

[champcarman]

As an Aussie outsider I would think TCR would be ideal for NZ.

[GHOGH]

4 race 1 hour series proposed for summer with GT, Porsche, V8s.

http://www.velocitynews.co.nz/news.php?id=1594

[socram]

Not so good for flaggies out on a post from 8am to 8pm though - or race meeting officials, who are all volunteers. I wonder if the Motorsport Club were consulted?

Racetroll?

[DX20VT]

So are they expecting the same guys who will be racing their cars on the Sunday for the Championship,
to risk/run their cars in a 1 hour on Saturday night?

Or are they looking for two separate lots of people who have V8 supertourers etc?

[Mark Petch]

Originally Posted by DX20VT

So are they expecting the same guys who will be racing their cars on the Sunday for the Championship,
to risk/run their cars in a 1 hour on Saturday night?

Or are they looking for two separate lots of people who have V8 supertourers etc?

The matter was discussed at length at the SOG [Series Organisers Group] meeting last Monday.

Geoff Short, stated that you could only enter the 1 hour Endurance race if you were entered and running in a category that was running at the same event.

Several people including myself felt that Geoff had not thought through the detail of his proposal and as always the "devil is in the detail"

In my opinion you are quite right DX20VT, why would anybody chasing a MZNZ Championship consider running in a one hour race on Saturday evening, and jeopardise their Sunday race, or race's if they run a NZ Touring car etc.

Why also would somebody want to run their FiA GT3 Endurance car in a GT sprint race category for that weekend so that they would be eligible to run in a a 1 hour endurance race where the cars will be rated on some fanciful BOP scale to determine how long each car must stop for in the compulsory pitstop?

Geoff's answer was that I would be surprised at the level of interest. Hmmmm I wonder just who might be surprised this summer, time will tell as always.

[Blackpearl]

geoff short, wanted to buy 2 aus 86 cars from a person that have dealt with , ryan and reid went over, cant race as have not paid, did a overseas fund transfer, canceled it after they saw he did it,true story. yay for winning the grand tr86 prize. Gee if your looking at buying cars would you not do a inspection first on condition.

Does Toyota want this guy as a face for the series he is just doing what he did in the past with the motorsport compay

[socram]

Originally Posted by Mark Petch

Geoff's answer was that I would be surprised at the level of interest. Hmmmm I wonder just who might be
surprised this summer, time will tell as always.

Priceless! The words 'leopards' and 'spots' spring to mind.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Mark Petch

Good post as usual Icarus,

Control class racing develops drivers. No question.
But less skilled drivers and teams with the wrong approach rapidly become discouraged.

In reflection, aside from being undermined by MSNZ, what you espouse is why so many V8St cars are sitting in 'sheds' because the drivers with less skills etc ultimately become discouraged.

Without naming names several of those drivers/Dad's have instead spent some rather serious amounts of money modifying their V8ST's to go Endurance racing, and or GT1 racing, however, despite more BHP and or areo, not one of them have ever got within Scott McLaughlin time of 1minute 2.8 second V8ST qualifying lap at Hampton Downs 4 years ago, or SVG' 1 minute 3.6 second V8ST qualifying lap at Pukekohe 3 years ago.

The point being they lack the ultimate skill to compete against the best or even the next rung down from these two hugely talented Tin-Top drivers, so, discouraged they seek a class with freedoms or pack up and seek greener pastures like the V8 Ute, or 86 Series etc.

Ironically I see exactly the same thing happening in our Ssangyong Actyon Sport Ute series, driver's/Dad's being discouraged because in truth the steerer lacks the skill to be at the front on a consistent basis, so they walk away, and in some case from the sport itself because its been a rude awakening that they lack the skill required to race at the top in a strictly controlled one make race series.

I am not short on idea's to improve Premier categories but I ask were does the money come from? Its a user pays society we live in and thats never more the case than in motor racing.

That kind of stuff is always going to go on in any national scene when dealing with young drivers that have pro aspirations. All of the junior formula ladders overseas in the USA and Europe are literal wood chippers of young drivers and it leaves behind a huge pile of shreds of broken dreams and empty bank accounts(or debt). Dad has to look at his return on investment and if junior is plugging around at the back and Dad is spending six or seven figures a year, then at some point you have to call that quits. And if they do lack that ultimate talent and ability then certainly there is no problem with their reducing their costs and competing in something like TR86. Can't fault them for that.

If one is competing for their own enjoyment and can afford it or use it to their advantage such as promoting their own business endeavors, then that's a different deal. Outside of something like TRS, in New Zealand, that's where the money is and what do those guys want to drive is the question.

[goldedge]

Originally Posted by Mark Petch

Ironically I see exactly the same thing happening in our Ssangyong Actyon Sport Ute series, driver's/Dad's being discouraged because in truth the steerer lacks the skill to be at the front on a consistent basis, so they walk away, and in some case from the sport itself because its been a rude awakening that they lack the skill required to race at the top in a strictly controlled one make race series..

Hi Mark,
how much of a drivers results is likely to be determined by support team ( engineers etc) rather than just driving ability?

Also wouldn't the amount previous driving experience be a huge determining factors
in drivers results?

In other words is the experience in the class capable providing a career progression
path to other categories, if so would it not be worthwhile to stick it out for several seasons?

To me the future of all the main race classes whatever they are likely to be in the future is likely to be determined by the relevance, the motorsport growth path available
to participants and affordabilty.

One thing I believe may be lacking in NZ motorsport in general is the encouragement of young talent regardless of budjet.

Regards
Michael

[Mark Petch]

Originally Posted by goldedge

Hi Mark,
how much of a drivers results is likely to be determined by support team ( engineers etc) rather than just driving ability?

Also wouldn't the amount previous driving experience be a huge determining factors
in drivers results?

In other words is the experience in the class capable providing a career progression
path to other categories, if so would it not be worthwhile to stick it out for several seasons?

To me the future of all the main race classes whatever they are likely to be in the future is likely to be determined by the relevance, the motorsport growth path available
to participants and affordabilty.

One thing I believe may be lacking in NZ motorsport in general is the encouragement of young talent regardless of budjet.

Regards
Michael

Hi Michael,

Like your post by the way, you pose some good questions.

how much of a drivers results is likely to be determined by support team ( engineers etc) rather than just driving ability?

In the Ssangyong Utes Series, its 99% down to the driver, there is no data gathered, the damper adjustment has little to no effect, ride height is pretty much governed by the rules, toe changes make no real appreciable change, tyre pressures are just about the only thing you have to focus on and even then they have a very big 'window' so hard to get that wrong.

Also wouldn't the amount previous driving experience be a huge determining factors in drivers results?

Previous experience in karts and other categories all help, however, you only have to look at 13 year old Callum Hedge to see that with coaching from Danial Connor, this young man is now one of the Series best drivers, and I predict will go on to make a real name for himself in NZ motor racing, as the family has recently purchased Liam Lawson Championship winning Formula Ford.

In other words is the experience in the class capable providing a career progression path to other categories, if so would it not be worthwhile to stick it out for several seasons?

Sadly money is what provides a career path for any driver, Chelsea Herbert progressed into the V8 Touring class last season with Backing from her SRS sponsor MTF, so that probably the best example of somebody with not a lot of family money progressing through SRS. However, I am sure that if Danial Connor had the financial backing to progress beyond SRS he would do exceptionally well, in what ever he drove.

One thing I believe may be lacking in NZ motorsport in general is the encouragement of young talent regardless of budjet.

The one thing that MSNZ does very well, with the assistance of SPARK funding is the annual Elite Driving academy program.

Other than that it comes back down to money, if you really have talent like Callum Hedge and a family that can take you through several categories, then its still possible to raise money if you show exceptional talent, and have the inner determination to succeed.

[GHOGH]

The sun is getting a bit higher in the sky in August.
Looks like the politics have got in the way of the WRC returning to NZ.

Lester's thoughts on the Porsche for nz
http://www.velocitynews.co.nz/news.php?id=1959

Gilbertson and JMR playing in the rain.
https://www.facebook.com/JMR47/photo...229708/?type=3