[BTCC] BTCC 2018 - Rounds 1, 2, 3 - Brands Hatch Indy

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by redshoes

http://www.btcc.net/wp-content/uploa...egulations.pdf
Section 1.16

Sump and cam cover bolts are sealed. If you break those seal then that is considered a change of engine. So in your example, stripping and re-building would be considered a 'new' engine even if it was the same block.

But as you know from reading the rules and regs., an engine can be replaced during the season. There is nothing to say that the original cannot be rebuilt during the course of the season, and as such, be considered as the second engine. As permitted.

The only thing is that the team would be required to pay for a TOCA official to travel to wherever the engine is being refurbished to supervise the sealing/resealing of the engine.

Or that is how I read and interpret the regulations.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by peebee2

Sad to say, you are a few decades out of date!

My intention was not to compare the qualities of materials between the decades, but to point out that the basic structure of the engine remained the same, but that some of the internals were replaced. It meant that for all intents and purposes, I only had one engine.

[S griffin]

Apparently the new engine though isn't up to full power yet, so we have to see how it goes at Donny

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

But as you know from reading the rules and regs., an engine can be replaced during the season. There is nothing to say that the original cannot be rebuilt during the course of the season, and as such, be considered as the second engine. As permitted.

The rebuild is quite limited though - and excludes head gasket...

'Provided that no mechanical work is carried out other than the repairing of an oil leak by the replacement of gaskets and seals then the engine will be resealed and will not be deemed to be a new engine. For the avoidance of doubt this does not permit the replacement of head gaskets.'

[AdrianM]

Interesting looking at the info from the morning session at Thruxton. Sutton is quite a way ahead of Plato and Price again but if you look at the speed traps there is very little between Sutton and Price which would seem to indicate it's the corners that Plato is losing out. With Price his speeds are slower than both.

[thlbtcc]

Is everyone present at the test?

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

The rebuild is quite limited though - and excludes head gasket...

'Provided that no mechanical work is carried out other than the repairing of an oil leak by the replacement of gaskets and seals then the engine will be resealed and will not be deemed to be a new engine. For the avoidance of doubt this does not permit the replacement of head gaskets.'

I know this, and if you go back a few posts, you will see that I had already highlighted the head gasket issue.

However, as I wrote, I cannot see anything in the regulations that would stop a team that only had one engine from re-building that engine during the course of the season provided that they paid for the supervision of the re-sealing.

That would still mean that the team, provided they didn't need to do it again, still only used "two" engines even if the "second" engine was just the re-built first one.

[fergus_r]

Originally Posted by thlbtcc

Is everyone present at the test?

Only 23 cars.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

I know this, and if you go back a few posts, you will see that I had already highlighted the head gasket issue.

However, as I wrote, I cannot see anything in the regulations that would stop a team that only had one engine from re-building that engine during the course of the season provided that they paid for the supervision of the re-sealing.

That would still mean that the team, provided they didn't need to do it again, still only used "two" engines even if the "second" engine was just the re-built first one.

Apologies for my confusion - I see what you are referring to now.


But - paying the TOCA fees for them to oversee a strip and rebuild, along with all of the components used, must surely be more expensive than a replacement unit?

As I read the rules - the intent is that 'once the engine seals are split, unless for fixing a leak, you are onto a second engine'. Given the relationship between BMR/Plato/Gow/TOCA in the past over technical issues, I would find it difficult to imagine the championship organisers would be keen for BMR to be given a waiver on engine allocations.

At the end of it though - are we in a position where, from Donington, Plato is on engine #1 and Sutton/Price are on engine #2?

[thlbtcc]

Originally Posted by fergus_r

Only 23 cars.

Ta.

[thlbtcc]

"Half way through FP2 here @thruxtonracing... Ash Sutton tops the times & is quicker than Tom Chilton went this morning by a couple of tenths, again inside Matt Neal's qualifying lap record. Neal himself is second, Sam Tordoff third. That trio, and Cook are under Neal's record."

https://twitter.com/DunlopBTCC/statu...44117529907200

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Apologies for my confusion - I see what you are referring to now.
............


................At the end of it though - are we in a position where, from Donington, Plato is on engine #1 and Sutton/Price are on engine #2?

No problem; possibly I should have explained myself more initially.

And that's how I would interpret the rules; Plato on number one, and the other two lads on number two.

[Sodemo]

I had no idea there was a test today.

I presume they were all using the Thruxton tyre?

[AdrianM]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

I had no idea there was a test today.

I presume they were all using the Thruxton tyre?

It's the official test day. The results and stats are all on tsl-timing.com

[touring fan01]

http://www.btcc.net/2018/04/12/sutto...s-at-thruxton/

[850Estate]

Was Sutton running the Mountune or Swindon engine?

[touring fan01]

Originally Posted by 850Estate

Was Sutton running the Mountune or Swindon engine?

mountune

[850Estate]

Originally Posted by touring fan01

mountune

Cheers

[Sodemo]

Is there no speed trap data?

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

Is there no speed trap data?

http://www.tsl-timing.com/event/181541
PDF with all timing data here

[sceptic]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

I would love to read the source of this; could you provide a link, please.

And, assuming that the above is true, what is to say that, within the rules, those engines weren't stripped, refurbished and re-built. That would still mean that only one engine was used during the season.

Drawing on my own experience from 50 years ago, I raced for roughly 5 years with just one engine. However, we changed the head gasket after each meeting, and after two meetings I stripped the engine down completely and rebuilt it, at a minimum, with new big end shells and small end bushes, new piston rings and new valve springs. But it remained just one engine.

I don't believe it is available on the web so you will just have to trust me.

The original spec of the Swindon engine was to require a rebuild every 5,000 miles.

A car will do around 350 miles per race weekend, so doing a rebuild during the season shouldn't be necessary.

[thlbtcc]

Plato 1.4 seconds down on Sutton during the Thruxton test.

His side of the garage may have been focussing on race-runs and not qualifying, but still, smells like these shenanigans for yet another season until there are podiums at a RWD favourable circuit. Getting bored of it.

Either he finds a FWD drive in 2019, or he sets up his own team and retires from driving, please.

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by thlbtcc

Plato 1.4 seconds down on Sutton during the Thruxton test.

His side of the garage may have been focussing on race-runs and not qualifying, but still, smells like these shenanigans for yet another season until there are podiums at a RWD favourable circuit. Getting bored of it.

Either he finds a FWD drive in 2019, or he sets up his own team and retires from driving, please.

Can't see a me me me running a team...

[Gogsbtcc77]

Hi