[Team] Haas: Gene Haas of NASCAR attempting to start F1 team

[broadrun96]

I've seen a few reports from supposedly connected Croatian reporter but even his report is VERY limited in the scope that Toyota would be involved. Likely money, branding and getting one of their guys a seat. Most of it is Haas IS negotiating use of the Toyota wind tunnel and thus well A plus 7 must equal buy-out coming

[NaBUru38]

Toyota Gazoo boss Masaya Kaji was at the Haas garage at Silverstone.

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

Toyota Gazoo boss Masaya Kaji was at the Haas garage at Silverstone.

I believe it may have legs, and shows a much better approach than some others who noisily claim to want to enter F1.

[TF110]

Haas guy visits Toyota at Le Mans, Toyota guy visits HAAS at Silverstone. Maybe this is because of the rumored talks, or maybe this caused the rumors of talks?

[VIVA GT]

Could it just be that Toyota are simply making a huge machine tool purchase? Isn't this what Gene Haas said his F1 Team is supposed to be publicising?

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

Could it just be that Toyota are simply making a huge machine tool purchase? Isn't this what Gene Haas said his F1 Team is supposed to be publicising?

And it's fairly well known Haas was negotiating time with Toyota's advanced wind tunnel, you know what McLaren did for a long time before theirs was up and running and to verify findings

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

Could it just be that Toyota are simply making a huge machine tool purchase? Isn't this what Gene Haas said his F1 Team is supposed to be publicising?

Which could well be linked to sponsorship/partnership, like many such deals...

[chillibowl]

Toyota coming back with a Ferrari clone sounds about right!

seriously tho, would they come back as an engine manu as well?

have been stories about Renault leaving but if they stay in, it will be Merc, Ferrari, RB Powertrain (is that still happening?), Honda, Renault, Audi/VW, and now possibly Toyota...plus GM if the Andretti play works out!

so post 2026 could see 8 engine manus for 11 teams?

is that too many engine manus? or a sign that the manu are genuinely more interested in sustainable fuel ICE over electric? or too many cooks when it will come to negotiating post 2030 engine regs? what does this mean for engine cap spending? are there any systems in place to oversee this? will they just all collude to create the impression of variety?

and while variety may seem like a good thing, it could equally be a complete nightmare?

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

Toyota coming back with a Ferrari clone sounds about right!

seriously tho, would they come back as an engine manu as well?

have been stories about Renault leaving but if they stay in, it will be Merc, Ferrari, RB Powertrain (is that still happening?), Honda, Renault, Audi/VW, and now possibly Toyota...plus GM if the Andretti play works out!

so post 2026 could see 8 engine manus for 11 teams?

is that too many engine manus? or a sign that the manu are genuinely more interested in sustainable fuel ICE over electric? or too many cooks when it will come to negotiating post 2030 engine regs? what does this mean for engine cap spending? are there any systems in place to oversee this? will they just all collude to create the impression of variety?

and while variety may seem like a good thing, it could equally be a complete nightmare?

Alpine expected to switch to Merc, in place of AM.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

have been stories about Renault leaving but if they stay in, it will be Merc, Ferrari, RB Powertrain (is that still happening?), Honda, Renault, Audi/VW, and now possibly Toyota...plus GM if the Andretti play works out!

RBPT is very real. They have partnered with Ford. Engine may be badged as "Ford".

GM is not going to happen. The main reason is because they have not committed to providing a power unit. There was a deadline for them to sign up which has passed. If the Andretti entry had been approved GM would have been able to sign up prior to that deadline. But Andretti was not approved so GM didn't commit/sign.

There are significant rules (caps on cost, capex spends, types of infrastructure) on the development of the 2026 power units. GM is beyond the window of the required financial lookback required for rule compliance. They could come in at a later (post 2026 date), but unless there is some breakthrough with Andretti (doubtful) I think the GM F1 power unit is dead.

Oh, and I expect Toyota will be in same boat as GM regarding entry. I am not 100% sure, but I don't think they can start a program today AND provide a power unit for 2026. They could start today and maybe join in after 2026. I think there might be a small chance they could join today (for 2026), but ONLY if they had strong evidence to provide that shows they have been compliant with the spending limits (as if they had signed prior to the 2026 deadline). I suspect other power unit manufactures may balk at letting them in AFTER everyone else has signed and is following the strict compliance.

Richard

[steve_r]

Ocon rumoured to be signing with Haas.

https://www.crash.net/f1/news/105225...2025-f1-season

Solid choice to go alongside a rookie teammate. Bearman can expect no favours if/when they are wheel to wheel.

[v8supes]

Isnt the Toyota thing kinda half hearted though? Haas have signed with Ferrari until 2028 for engines, gearboxes, customer car parts (not sure what these are other than radiators/coolers)

The articles around at the moment all mention that Toyota are unlikely to take over the team and run it as a "Toyota" team a la the mid 00s but more that Toyota will provide things like wind tunnel usage, personnel, aero design work etc.

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by v8supes

Isnt the Toyota thing kinda half hearted though? Haas have signed with Ferrari until 2028 for engines, gearboxes, customer car parts (not sure what these are other than radiators/coolers)

The articles around at the moment all mention that Toyota are unlikely to take over the team and run it as a "Toyota" team a la the mid 00s but more that Toyota will provide things like wind tunnel usage, personnel, aero design work etc.

If that is true, is it a possibility that Haas knows that stronger restrictions are to be put in place regarding the sharing of items and infrastructure so that the present arrangement Haas has with Ferrari may be more restrictive in the future....
Or is Haas actually looking to set up more independence, so it moves away from Ferrari dependence and becomes more self-sufficient in future?

Either way it looks as if they are looking for more self-dependence on their research and development side for the future.
Yes, they are losing Hulkenberg next year, but Occon may be a quicker option in a more optimized car in 2025. If that happens and Bearman can produce the sort of run he had in Saudi they have reasons to be optimistic about the future.

[GTRMagic]

Hasnt McLaren slowly backed away from using Toyota's windtunnel facilities since their own new tunnel has come on stream?

Perhaps Haas is a potential new customer for those facilities..

[P38 in workshop]

It isn't hard to understand why McLaren are using their own tunnel.Why would you choose to take a vanload of parts across the Channel,with all the post Brexit paperwork,to run in a tunnel that's older than the one you can reach by walking down the corridor?You would,of course,be wise to do a few runs with identical setups in each tunnel to establish a correlation.

[Sandgroper]

Magnussen out !

[Teretonga]

Komatsu has experience and history with Ocon since the early days of his career so isn't worried about the reputation aspect. He'll be able to handle that.

Ocon gets someone who likes him, believes in him, and he has a good relationship with.
So, what is there not to like?
If this works well it could be a significant lift over the Haas present level of performance and build Haas into a team of much more significance.

[Skam85]

I don't think Magnussen's pace and salary differential is enough to offset Ocon's higher salary and being a worse teammate.

[GTRMagic]

Ocon Confirmed At Haas

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Ocon Confirmed At Haas

For me that's a very underwhelming signing - not sure what positives Ocon brings to the team? Is he an upgrade on Magnussen?

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

For me that's a very underwhelming signing - not sure what positives Ocon brings to the team? Is he an upgrade on Magnussen?

The Haas mob seem to be making a lot of Mr Ocon bring the first F1 race winner to have joined the team…

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

For me that's a very underwhelming signing - not sure what positives Ocon brings to the team? Is he an upgrade on Magnussen?

I think it may be a brilliant signing.
They're getting an experienced driver, probably at reasonable cost, on a long-term contract and who has a solid relationship with the team principal that goes back nearly a decade.
If the 2025 car is any good this may work out very well for them.

I think the negatives about Ocon are being overplayed.
If you go back and look at each incident, they are 50/50 in responsibility. and the fan site stuff is just negative opinion that invariably earns clicks but is short on substance.

Losing Hulkenberg will be a felt loss but getting Ocon who has worked with Komatsu in the past may turn out to be just what Ocon needs to get the best out of him, and his best is actually quite good, fast, and capable when under pressure.

We'll see how this works out next year, but at this point I'm tending to look at the positive possibilities rather than get negative.
If the team functions well and the upward curve continues that will also be good for Bearman.

[S griffin]

Haas should maybe have gone for stability at this critical time. I reckon they could be in for a good season next year

I think Ocon is underrated, he’s done many a good job with Alpine. Can he do as well as Hulkenberg? That’s a big question that will be tricky to answer right now

Very crucial year for Haas next season

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

I think it may be a brilliant signing.
They're getting an experienced driver, probably at reasonable cost, on a long-term contract and who has a solid relationship with the team principal that goes back nearly a decade.

Experienced yes, but is he better than average? I'd say not. Better than Magnussen? Probably not. Is his relationship with Komatsu being overstated? Komatsu engineered Ocon's first run in the Lotus but is there anything beyond that? If Ocon was viewed a top talent there's an empty Mercedes seat that he'd be stepping into (especially given who his management is).

Originally Posted by Teretonga

I think the negatives about Ocon are being overplayed.
If you go back and look at each incident, they are 50/50 in responsibility.

The thing is he gets involved in a lot of incidents - 50/50 or whatever, he seems to have more clashes with teammates than is normal. Also he seems to be the one driver on the grid that nobody else really gets on with - you'd have to say he has more enemies than friends on the grid (not sure you can say that about any of the other drivers?). That may not be important (drivers are there to win not make friends) but it does seem to be a bit of an anomaly.

Originally Posted by Teretonga

Losing Hulkenberg will be a felt loss but getting Ocon who has worked with Komatsu in the past may turn out to be just what Ocon needs to get the best out of him, and his best is actually quite good, fast, and capable when under pressure.

Not sure I'd agree with the "capable under pressure" obvservation - it's when he's under pressure (particularly from teammates) that his judgement is suspect.

Originally Posted by Teretonga

We'll see how this works out next year, but at this point I'm tending to look at the positive possibilities rather than get negative.
If the team functions well and the upward curve continues that will also be good for Bearman.

It could go either way - I think getting out of Alpine is a good move for him, clearly that relationship is dead. Maybe he'll be ok at Haas. If Haas improves then that'll be good for Bearman - but having Ocon as a teammate? Not sure that's good for Bearman, Ocon is not a team player.

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

Experienced yes, but is he better than average? I'd say not. Better than Magnussen? Probably not. Is his relationship with Komatsu being overstated? Komatsu engineered Ocon's first run in the Lotus but is there anything beyond that? If Ocon was viewed a top talent there's an empty Mercedes seat that he'd be stepping into (especially given who his management is).



The thing is he gets involved in a lot of incidents - 50/50 or whatever, he seems to have more clashes with teammates than is normal. Also he seems to be the one driver on the grid that nobody else really gets on with - you'd have to say he has more enemies than friends on the grid (not sure you can say that about any of the other drivers?). That may not be important (drivers are there to win not make friends) but it does seem to be a bit of an anomaly.



Not sure I'd agree with the "capable under pressure" obvservation - it's when he's under pressure (particularly from teammates) that his judgement is suspect.



It could go either way - I think getting out of Alpine is a good move for him, clearly that relationship is dead. Maybe he'll be ok at Haas. If Haas improves then that'll be good for Bearman - but having Ocon as a teammate? Not sure that's good for Bearman, Ocon is not a team player.

I think Ocon is still getting there. Maybe this is a risky move, so we’ll see how it works out. Maybe he’s been a little overlooked, but he’s still worth his place on the grid. Incidents tend to happen in the midfield. Although he does seem to struggle under pressure. But I agree, he needed to move on from Alpine, he was getting stale there