Are Bernie, Max and the FIA stupid?

[DNQ]

I am sorry, but I have come to the conclusion that Max Mosely is stupid, and Bernie Ecclestone is just weird. Sure, bernie brought the sport into the highly commercialised form it is today. But what about all these stupid things Max 'let's put grooves in the tyre's' Mosely and the FIA has approved:

* Grooved Tyres. I ask, does any one here actually like them?
* Narrow Track cars, same reason as above.
* No mechanical grip, just wings - no overtaking.
* Boring Tracks. After Senna's death, something like 20 fast corners were removed, re-profiled, or had chicanes put in front.
* Stupid Camera views. Unless you have Bernie-vision, no in-car footage.
* Made the drivers seem boring like Mika. No James Hunt's or other characters.

The list goes on and on and on. Yes, the FIA has done some good things, but nothing in relation to improving the racing. It seems track safety, spectators, sponsors and money is at the top of the FIA's list of priorities.

End of whinge.

[Valve Bounce]

If you would visualise F1 as a business and not a sport, then the machinations of the FIA, Max and Bernie will be better understood, although we do not have to agree with them. It is intersting that you mention track safety as the first issue - that is also the first issue on my priorities if I had to form any rules for F1: safety for the drivers, spectators and the marshals. It is just that the way Max has gone about th eissue seems to be less than effective. But then, what would you legislate to control F1? Tell me the positives you would consider in your set of rules. For example, I would ban wings.

[elise]

there's safety and then there's plain boring, f1 is a dangerous sport every1 knowes it is willing to except it. i'm not saying they shouldn't care less about driver safety but they could find better ways of improving it.

they can't get rid of wings, you have to admit you can't have an ugly f1 car, yes i'm that shallow.

[Valve Bounce]

The most beautiful F1 cars never had wings. Just have a look at the post war Mercedes, Eagle, Clark's Lotus, and so on. However, I admit that we will never see wings banned. Just imagine the present day cars without wings, bargeboards, and all that paraphanalia hanging all over the car - they would be gorgeous. But I dream - this will never happen.

[Liz]

Bernie and Max and the FIA are not stupid. I believe the word is "hubris". They have simply got to the point where they think that whatever they decree is correct and that they alone know The Truth. Absolute Power does not only corrupt absolutely - it makes a person lose touch with the foundations on which his power rests.

Personally I think the Lotus 79 is the most perfect car ever designed, and if I were Max or Bernie I would not have allowed the cars to abandon those things that made that car perfect. And I would not let babies drive the cars, and I would let the Real Men who drove them say whatever they wanted to say. And F1 would be fossilized. It would be no more attractive to The Masses if it conformed to my ideal than it is as Bernie and Max's ideal.

[Valve Bounce]

Could we please have a picture of the Lotus 79, the post war Mercedes, the Eagle. From memory, that Eagle F1 car was engineering excellence, but unfortunately they were overtaken by events which saw the dominance of the rear engined cars from that year.

[Sonatrap]

If they make it any safer they´ll suck the sport right out of it.It´ll be just a spectacle.
Why don´t they just get all the drivers to stand at the top of a tower and control the cars with handsets?
It´s a crying shame what they have done to F1.
And it´s Hubris alright...look at the cross section of people who speak out against the current rules...Drivers, journalists, fans etc.
It wouldn´t take much to to sort things out...slash downforce and increase tyre grip ,basically.
Oh, and a return to racing on ONE tank of fuel would be excellent. They say that everything is governed by safety interests but that is bull****.Fuel pit stops are potentially lethal...and they turn races into a series of sprints.
BRING BACK THE DAYS OF 1000HP!

[angst]

Sonatrap - couldn't agree with you more - more emphasis on mechanical grip, less on aerodynamic grip. And fuel stops - what a joke (if it wasn't for the impending pit-lane catastrophe, which will happen one day). Let the drivers show their talents off aswell as the designers/engineers.

[Marshal]

Originally posted by Valve Bounce
Could we please have a picture of the Lotus 79, the post war Mercedes, the Eagle. From memory, that Eagle F1 car was engineering excellence, but unfortunately they were overtaken by events which saw the dominance of the rear engined cars from that year.

VB, I think you are thinking of the Scarab (which is a pretty car), the Eagle was Dan Gurney's creation and ran '66 to '67 with the lovely Weslake V12 engine. Won its only race at Spa in '67 in Gurney's hands. Sorry, I haven't got a picture.

[Valve Bounce]

Marshal, you are 100% right. Now, if only I can get Dino to give us a picture of this beautiful car. I remember seeing photos of the engine as well, and it was really well made.

[Dino IV]

Mercedes W196:


The Scarab was beautifully crafted US-pride and joy but although all efforts were made, it was way too slow:


Eagle T1G Weslake, probably the most beautiful car of that era:


Lotus 79:

[Valve Bounce]

Thanks Dino It just goes to show that cars without wings were trulli beautiful.

[Piquet]

I agree with most of what has been said - I've been following F1 for 25 years now and I can honestly say I can not remember a more boring , uneventful period in its history - it really does compare to a sunday drive.

All this safety thing is getting to be a damn pain in the ass - people die in an awful lot of sports - obviously I wouldn't wish for any deaths but driving around a track at the speeds they do - well **** happens. Friends of mine who have have no particular interest in the sport have commented on a few occasions that they don't watch anymore as nothing "exciting" happens anymore. I have tried to defend the sport and show them the error of their ways in the past but frankly I'm beginning to loose any conviction I had in my case.

Although I don't have a great knowledge of indy racing I like to keep my eye on it and if ITV said today they are to show Indy races this year and not F1 - after the initial shock I think I'd look forward to it and I'm sure by the end of the season I would complement itv on their decision and demand the same for 2002.

Ironically I think a significant proportion of blame must lie with the "fans" the sport is attracting who are willing to pay to see races on tv and ensuring F1 becomes a huge money making commercial machine with a couple of dictators at the helm. The essence of the sport is being smothered and we are left with what equates to a parade on a Sunday with teams showing off the beautifully designed advertising boards and the movie stars / musicians etc. who just love the sport so much they just had to make the effort to get up and go for a walk down the startgrid - martin Brundle is quite good at his job , but that part of the show makes me sick!

And so we are fast approaching another season in which Bernie will get richer, the drivers (lucky enough to have a seat in a miserably small grid) will have a few more races under their belts, the sponsors will be a few million quid less well off, McLaren or Ferrari will have another championship victory and I (along with some others) will have an increased sense of dissatisfaction. Ever an optimist eh !!

[Dino IV]

Can't agree more, Piquet ... unfortunately.

Mosley has proven to be a rigid megalomanic Caesar Nero for F1 but the teams are to blame themselves as well.

Max is responsible for the purposely left open to discussion and vague rewriting of the rule after the 1993 season. The electronic aids discussion is one he wanted and should have solved by that and didn't - or rather he foresaw he couldn't in court - punish the cheaters but rewarded them with dominating the rest of the field. Tyrrell was punished in a farce for a hunch of actually nothing in the early eighties, today we don't get teams to be punished even if there's strong evidence. So that's Max' input in bringing down our beloved sport and once again, thanks for keeping that stubborn head up and not changing anything ...

But the way the cars look and behave today is not all Max' fault. In 1997 the teams were able to chose between option one: slicks and a 50% downforce reduction by cutting wing and diffuser area and option two: grooved tyres, narrower track and no big reduction in downforce. That was were it all went wrong. We as know that the spectacle is aided much more by reducing downforce and shifting the decisive handling factor to mechanical grip. That's what we would have voted for and that was actually Max' favourite as well. But ... aerodynamics play such a big role in F1 the teams voted for option number two as no-one wanted to have their downforce drastically reduced. So now we're three seasons into those regulations and Max is getting forward with the initial thought of option one of 1997: downforce reduction. Initially the new rules count for about a 25% reduction but teams will be able to minimize that loss to about 5-10%. And now the teams start to get annoyed again coz they don't want to cut downforce and not get anything in return to make up for it. Some people are quite upset now and are supporting the return of the slicks instead. But Max had option two his way with the grooves so he'll stick to that as long as possible. I don't know how long that will last but we'll probably see the 1997-option #1 come effective in the near future and we'll have like five seasons of mixed emotions and weird rulings to memorize. Rather sooner than later hopefully ...

[R]

Couldn't agree more with what you're saying Dino. 1997 was a really great season, with many different teams being competitive at different tracks. It's enough to mention Damon's fantastic drive at the Hungaroring. Then these ****ing new rules were introduced, and for 98 we get to see a McLaren dominance even worse than the late 80's, and the only one who could challenge was TGF. I remember very well mr. Mosley saying at the end of the 97 season that the new rules would lead to closer and more interesting racing. I remember thinking: Why alter the rules on that basis when we've had such a competitive and interesting season??? And of course my fears materialized. I could have bet a thousand dollars on that, I knew they would screw it up by making these changes. And of course we all know this happened.

[Valve Bounce]

It is imperative that the projected frontal area of the wings be reduced, especially the rear ones to reduce turbulance. The cars are too dependent on these wings, especially the front ones, and when anything happens like getting too close to the car in front, the front wings don't work so well. It is really very different for Max th change the rules because the teams will not have consensus to any change. Gee!! That Mercedes W196 looks nice, doesn't it.