michael did deserve to win.

[DancingMachine]

THANKS AGAIN GT_R. u r the only 1 understanding me here


THE Bottom line is if both drivers didnt have problems, ms would take it. no doubt mika put a fight till the end. MS himself said he had traffic but he had problems right after he came out of the pits. some vibrations( he didnt really mention it) but some problems right after the pitstop. and mika started taking 3 sec.. he cant do that if ms has the best car...... mika took lead cuz Ms had problems n tables turned like they should have...MS DESERVED A WIN. mika deserved 2 nd place ..sorry he didnt get it.

[Don K]

Originally posted by EERO
Hakkinen ... came out 3 seconds ahead of TGF.

No, he didn't. After the first section he was only 2.156 seconds ahead, After the second 3.052, and at start/finish 3.572. Looked like a big problem to me.

Don K.

[Tristan]

...and TGF had already run 3 or 4 laps on the "dodgy tyres", dropping at least a second per lap. I must admit, were it not for his problems, TGF would have come out COMFORTABLY infront of Hakinnen. But he didn't, and that's racing!

[Don K]

On the other hand, if Michael wouldn't have had his problems, Mika would have ended up with 6 or 4 points.

Don K.

[Valve Bounce]

Originally posted by neutral

P.S.S Tristan, trying to convince this panel that Michael would have won the race, despite being entirely logical, is futile. You should know the ten tenths motto by now- "Whenever there is a chance to put down Michael, no matter how crazy the argument is, just do it!" In the next few days, you will hear stories on how Michael caused the tyre problem!, how the FIA scripted the win (wait a sec, I think I see that already!), and so on. I too tried to bring some logic into this forum, but as they say " you can lead a horse to water, but you cant make it drink". Dont take this forum too seriously Tristan, I use it for a laugh. Perhaps you should too.

We come here to have a good time, and a lot of posts are not really that serious, being tongue in cheek. Why should there be any logic in this forum? Why should anyone take this forum too seriously? Does anyone take any forum seriously? If so, how boring!!
I am glad you use this forum for a laugh - so do I. I even read Dancing Machine's threads and posts. This is an insult and abuse free forum - we come here to enjoy ourselves. Let's not lose sight of this objective.

[Airhead]

Plus I don't believe that people gather here to run down the glory of Michael.

But Ralf the big bottomed stud, that's something else again. Notice he didn't finish the race, the boy reaquainted himself with his natural environment - the gravel trap.

[DancingMachine]

by valve ounce

"This is an insult and abuse free forum - we come here to enjoy ourselves. Let's not lose sight of this objective. "

look whose talking...did u ever tell this to yourself who is always insulting others. and once again valve ounce comes up with a post which has nothing to do with F1. and didnt i ask u quit posting such useless topics in my post...do this somewhere else.. this is a F1 forum and i take it seriously.

[Marshal]

Originally posted by Tristan
...and TGF had already run 3 or 4 laps on the "dodgy tyres", dropping at least a second per lap. I must admit, were it not for his problems, TGF would have come out COMFORTABLY infront of Hakinnen. But he didn't, and that's racing!

I agree with that except the bit about it being tyres. I can't believe that a bad set of tyre causing you to be 7 seconds a lap slower as Schuey was by the end. I do wonder if the very clever Ferrari brakes are putting some stresses on the cars suspensions, just look at 2 suspension related failures in the past 2 races, and Schuey having to complete the last 1/3 of the race at significantly reduced pace due to a vibration. One last thought, I can't see Bridgestone being too happy about their tyres being blamed if it was a suspension problem.

[Tristan]

Marsh, note the quotation marks around "dodgy tyres". I too am more than a little suspicious. Dodgy tyres my.... foot. Personally I reckon it was a fault in the TC that wasn't letting him put the throttle down on the straight.

[Billy_Hunt]

Originally posted by Marshal


I do wonder if the very clever Ferrari brakes are putting some stresses on the cars suspensions, just look at 2 suspension related failures in the past 2 races, and Schuey having to complete the last 1/3 of the race at significantly reduced pace due to a vibration.

My thoughts Exactly, the right thing for Ferrari to do IF TGF thought he had some sort of problem was to retire him a suspension failure at great speed could have had catastophic results.
RB retires with suspension failure, Ferrari are worried could the same thing happen to the other car,TGF radio's in with reports of bad vibration ? How they came to the immediate conclusion that it was down to tyres I do not know.
TGF slows alot !
He should have retired from the race !

[riusnow]

If MS didn't have the vibration problem he could have easily caught and passed Mika. The split times right after the last pit shows how far off the pace MS was falling.

[Red]

You don’t have to worry about that “7 seconds per lap slower”. No matter what the cause for those vibrations was, he knew he could not win the race. But he also knew that the closest car was a lap behind, especially after Barrichello’s retirement. He could afford an even slower pace.

I also suspect the brakes having some negative side effects. Tristan, it was nothing wrong with the TC. On the last lap, after Mika slowed down and before he parked his Mac, my impression was that Schumacher pushed hard.

[Tristan]

But hang on, people seem to be missing the point. Were it not for TGF's "problem", he would have been LEADING Hakinnen coming out of the pits. Plain and simple. There's no WAY you can make up a 5sec gap in the pits + however much Mika was ahead by. IMPOSSIBLE!!!

If NEITHER had their problems, TGF would have still won COMFORTABLY. (and what a dull race THAT would have been!)

[DancingMachine]

thanks alot tristan... i need that support...for some reason no 1 agrees that mika deserved to win... with no problems to each driver, MS would win it.

[DancingMachine]

this is what i call a final nail in the coffin


ross brawn
When Michael came in for his second pit stop, we had enough of a margin to maintain the lead, even after Hakkinen's stop, but our driver could no longer do the sort of times he had been doing earlier," concluded the British engineer

[EERO]

Originally posted by DancingMachine
by valve ounce

"This is an insult and abuse free forum - we come here to enjoy ourselves. Let's not lose sight of this objective. "

look whose talking...did u ever tell this to yourself who is always insulting others. and once again valve ounce comes up with a post which has nothing to do with F1. and didnt i ask u quit posting such useless topics in my post...do this somewhere else.. this is a F1 forum and i take it seriously.

Dancing Machine, I think Bouncey pointed out quite correctly, that a lot of the comments here are tongue -in-cheek. I started the thread on the conspiracy because I thought it was funny in light of of some of the things that have been posted here over the past two years. I'm sorry that you cannot discern the difference between irony and sincerity. I think you need to ease up a little bit and enjoy the discussions rather than getting wound up that people disagree with you. As for your comments about Valve Bounce, I have always found him to be a pleasant, thoughtful and agreeable member of this community. Please be advised that your personal attacks on him will not be tolerated in this forum. It is not to you to dictate who can and cannot post in any thread. Some people don't take every discussion so seriously here, that's what makes this a fun place.

On to the topic at hand: Tristan, you have done your research and are to be commended. At this point, I doubt anyone could deny that TGF would have won had the (Mysterious) vibration not set in. However, I remain disappointed for Hakkinen, whom I would have liked to see win. He was so close...

[laxman]

I fail to understand how easily everyone is blaming the brakes.If it was not the trye problem,then TGf didnt have any problem at all.How else could he start slowing down just after the second pit stop.If may have been something on barrichello's car that worried the ferrari team.But i dont think that TGf would have slowed down so much only for a potential problem.ALsdo notice that TGF started slowing down right after the second stop,which (i think) was before barrichello's incident.SO it may well have been something to do with the tyres.

[Tristan]

Well said EERO. I'm only being "serious" in THIS topic because I don't like to see my team run down!! FORZA FERRARI!! Ahem....

DM: sometimes you're posts are quite difficult to decipher. I'll be honest, often I have no idea what you're on about! But I TRY not to mention this, you are a fellow member of the forum and I respect that. I just hope you can show the same respect to other members (you KNOW the members who I mean).

I don't mean to blast you, anb d I hope you don't take this the wrongf way and stop posting!! I for one would miss your injections of wisdom into the discussions!!

Back to the topic, does anyone think that Ruben's problems are what caused Schumi to slow down?? Was there a radio call they'd rather not disclose? Why did they send Rubens out again once he'd come in? It's all very odd....

[DancingMachine]

ok i understand that i need to cool off but why isnt any1 saying anything VB. hes always on my ASS.

[Sparky]

Dancing Machine - If you had read any of the PM's or emails I've sent you, you'd know that I've already spoken to Valve Bounce, and he'll be more than happy to keep quiet...

But you need to get off his case too.

Myself, EERO and I believe Wrex have all tried to contact you privately on many occasions, so please don't be upset about this, unfortunately very public, statement.