Is There A Future For American Drivers?

[GP Racer]

This is a rather touchy subject, and probably one I should stay away from, but, I feel its important to the health of open wheel racing here. It came up in another thread, so I thought it might be worth exploring here alittle deeper.

With the addition of Vitor Meira, better than half the IRL drivers are now non American. 12 out of 21, to be exact. This is a trend that we saw in CART over the years, and one that I believe became a major factor in there demise here. It could become even more critical in the IRL, since all of their races, besides Motegi, are run in the states.

So let me throw out some questions:

For an American series, is this a problem, or is it much ado about nothing?

Do team owners have any obligation to give Americans a shot at a ride?

Is there something TG should be doing about this situation?

Why are American drivers being shut-out of the top rides?

Why can't we get the USAC drivers to look this way, instead of going to NASCAR?

Any thoughts?

[Kicking-back]

They're not getting the support they require from corporate America.

As a result, not enough talented US drivers are coming through.

Most of the non Americans in IRL are there on merit.

[Tenoch]

Nascar is where the money is at have you looked at the earnings table over there. Why struggle when you can live it up.

[BootsOntheSide]

True, Tenoch. Considering that they have 40-odd regulars in the series, and even the backmarkers fluke the odd good result (and routinely get over $50,000 for a completely uncompetitive weekend), you would have to be an Open-Wheel fanatic to go for this route.

It's only made worse by the fact that Indy racing (both championships) appeal so greatly to international drivers, whereas NASCAR largely does not. North American open wheel racing features not only Americans, Canadians and Mexicans, but also Brazillians, Brits, Japanese, New Zealanders, Portuguese, French, and numerous others. Some of these view it as an alternative to F1, others as a stepping stone, but a great many come in with talent as the deciding factor.

I wouldn't say Americans are shut out from the top rides as such. Penske has one, AGR have one, Rahal have one, Ganassi signed one, and Kelley had 2 last year. The smaller teams largely use overseas drivers - other than Buhl and Ray who co-own their squads, and Foyt who is there out of family benevolance (sp?).

[brandonrambo]

In my mind there are two American drivers who currently have a good shot at getting to F1 very soon:
A.J Allmendinger & Ryan Hunter-Reay

Allmendinger blitzed Toyota Atlantic last year and if he does well in ChampCars then I think WIlliams would give him a test.

Hunter-Reay won the last race of the season last year in ChampCars and he too could get an F1 test if this year is a success.

[jjspierx]

GPRacer - What it comes down to is this, its the team owners who choose the drivers not the series. The team owners are business-men and they want to make the most most money. They do this by either picking the best driver, picking the driver with the most money, or a combination of the two. For whatever reason its the international drivers who come up with the multi-millions of dollars it sometimes takes to buy a ride. Not to mention, to be honest their are more available top notch international drivers out. I'm not dogging on American drivers, there are LOTS of them who are perfectly capable to be competitive in open-wheel racing, however they are a smaller percentage then the drivers we are getting from South America and Europe, thats just a plain fact. Maybe its because there are so many lower Formula Car classes in those countries and Formula 1 is the top level and can only handle 20 drivers right now.

The series need to make incentive for the team owners if they want to entice them into hiring American drivers. The only way to do this is to shell out money to the teams, and I don't see either major open-wheel series in America doing that anytime soon. Until then the team owners will keep hiring the drivers with the most money, and talent...and there are just less American drivers looking for jobs.

Brandonrambo - I agree with your statement on AJ Allmendinger. He is America's best shot at getting an American into F1. Hopefully on his way up he'll turn some heads and bring more exposure to open-wheel racing in America.

[GP Racer]

I have somewhat mixed feeling's over the situation.

On the one hand, I like some of the non-American drivers, Kanann, and Castroneves are two of my favorites. There style, personality, and skills really add something to the series. On the other hand though, for the future health of the series, I feel its imperitave, that there are enough competitive American drivers to grow the sport here.

In order for IndyCars to regain some of its former glory, we have to start finding, the next Mears, Sullivans, Andretti's, Unser's, Johncocks, and Foyts. Thats when American fans were crazy for IndyCars, and it was bigger than NASCAR. They were our hero's, and they represented some of the best open wheel drivers in the world. Those days seem long gone, and suddenly the future looks bleak as well. Now most of the Americans driving in the IRL, are getting older. Barron, Buhl, Sharp, Herta, and Ray are all 34-41 years old. And who will replace them?

Ultimately, I would like to see a 60/40, American-to-non American mix, or at least a 50/50 mix. Our young future drivers, need to know that they have at least a shot at a ride here, or else they will give up, and so will fans here, and all we'll have left is NASCAR. I think TG needs to impress on the team owners, that it is in their's, and the series, best interest, to invest alittle extra in an American driver when its feasible. I don't want the IRL to go down the same road as CART did.

PS-Good points about NASCAR guys. They are surely part of the problem for us.

Welcome to the forum brandonrambo!

[BootsOntheSide]

Other than Barron and possibly Sharp, none of the older US drivers in the IRL are really among the best out there either.

[GP Racer]

Originally posted by BootsOntheSide
Other than Barron and possibly Sharp, none of the older US drivers in the IRL are really among the best out there either.

Well, hopefully we'll be surprised by Herta and Barron, who are both driving for good, multi-car teams. They should do pretty well.

I always thought Scott Sharp had the makings of a champ in this series. He is probably one of the most competitive drivers out there, and can hang with the best, when he has a decent car. I often wonder why AGR, Panther, or Penske never looked his way?

Greg Ray was the series champ, and an Indy 500 pole winner. Admitedly, the series was quite abit different in those days though.

Unfortunately, I think the days are over, when small, underfunded, single car teams, can win in this series, and it will probably be a long tough season for Sharp, Buhl, and Ray.

jj spierx, you mentioned that the series would have to give out incentives to team owners, to hire American drivers. Do you think they should? For myself, I think the investment would be worth it. The sport simply won't grow enough without some home grown drivers in it. Thats what will draw in the future fans. To many foreign names in the series, and the casual sports fan, won't take the time to watch and learn, and get to know the drivers. There's nothing at stake for him. It may not be right, but thats the way it is.

Bottom line is, no series or sport, can survive in its home country, if there are no drivers or players competing in it, from that country. Period. Why should we expect the IRL, or CART to either?

[Testure]

Let's be clear:

If there's a problem it certainly isn't that US drivers are any better or worse than anyone else. Or even that there's not enough drivers. There's some great American open-wheel drivers in both Champ Car (AJ and Ryan) and in Indy Car right now and common sense tells us that plenty of the current NASCAR drivers could be great open-wheel drivers.


The IRL wasn't founded to protect or promote US drivers, it was founded to protect the Indy 500. Sure enough, we've seen a steady trickle of changes that, at this point, have just about transformed the series into early-90s CART, but with the Indy 500 at the core (and proportionally fewer US drivers, I might add).

The current IRL formula will inevitably lead to a majority of drivers being non-US. Any big, prestigious, open-wheel series these days will always attract drivers from Brazil, Britain and dozens of other countries. Heck, it evens happens with F3-level series in many countries in Europe. There is a conflict between having a big, prestigious open-wheel series with multiple engine manufacturers, etc. and having a majority of drivers being American. I don't believe that that conflict can be resolved.

If you're right in that the lack of US drivers is a problem, then the IRL is in trouble. CART has already been through the pain of becoming a road-racing series, with international races and appealing to people outide the US. I don't think that the IRL could survive such a change, because it's too dependent on the expectation that, any day now, it'll become hugely popular in the US. All CART needs to do is to make just enough profit at races in the US, Mexico, Canada and Timbuktu to keep the series ticking over. I think you agree with me here, because you say "It could become even more critical in the IRL, since all of their races, besides Motegi, are run in the states."

For this series, then, the question it must ask itself is: "Is the IRL first and foremost an American open-wheel racing series or a big, prestigious, top-of-the-ladder, open-wheel series?" Tony George seems to want the latter, perhaps the former was what was needed.


To consider some of your questions:

Do team owners have any obligation to give Americans a shot at a ride?
I certainly don't think they should. Unlike F1, these guys are businessmen first and foremost - if they weren't making money, they'd quit. So they'll hire whoever will bring them the best return (which might, of course, include the driver most likely to win).

Is there something TG should be doing about this situation?
I think if he had put more thought into his league, we could have had a terrific open-wheel answer to NASCAR and, indeed, a perfect foil (but not competitor!) to CART. It's too late for that, though.

No, I don't believe that there is anything he can do. The series is too reliant on the engine manufacturers at this point for any significant changes to be made to the format of the series (I assume you mean things like mandating a proportion of drivers be American, changing the technical regs to appeal to USAC guys, etc.)

Why are American drivers being shut-out of the top rides?
Well, that makes it sound as if teams are rejecting American drivers because they're American and I really don't think that that's happening. In the current open-wheel economic climate in the US, they'll hire whoever makes business sense, which might mean keeping engine suppliers happy.

Why can't we get the USAC drivers to look this way, instead of going to NASCAR?
Of course, the obvious answer is that there's more money available in NASCAR! I'm too far away to really comment, but perhaps it's for the same reason that those guys don't look to F1.

Phew!

[Testure]

Also - there's a worthwhile article on cart.com which talks about somewhat similar topics. A quote:

To put some perspective on the dilemma we face today consider that in 1968 there were 89 entries for the Indy 500 including naturally-aspirated Offies, supercharged Offies, stock-block Fords, turbocharged, four-cam Fords and Granatelli and Lotus turbines. It was the height of the technical revolution at Indianapolis and the height of the race’s history. Twelve active F1 drivers were entered that year and six of them failed to qualify!

[GP Racer]

Great "ramblin, and babblin" post Testure! Well thought out and said! My turn!

You make some good points. The biggest point is, that the IRL is becoming more and more recognized by the international community. It seems to be gaining some real legitamacy as a bonified and prestigous championship. One only has to look at Scott Dixon's possible F1 ride, or Autosport Magazine, ranking 5 IRL drivers rather highly in their Top 50 Drivers this year, and there seems to be big interest from foreign drivers and fans more than ever. So it seems to be a series in transition. It's going from a series developed to protect the 500, and oval racing in general, to a more international series, with road racing, more foreign drivers, and multiple engine makers from different countries.

For those fans that want the international races and drivers, and a more CART-like feel, this will be considered a good thing. But for those that like the all-oval format, more American drivers, and an "American feel" to the series, this could be a problem. I fall somewhere in the middle. I don't want to see the IRL turn into CART, simply because CART in its later years, gave no reason for an American fan to care any longer. If the IRL wants to have 3-4 road races, fine, but thats about it for me. I like the ovals, and TG runs a real risk of alienating the fan base he has built up over the years, if he morphs into CART.

No matter which way it goes though, it will need SOME good American drivers, with some top teams, to make it financially, here in the US. It will not grow without them. CART has shown us, that you can have huge races in Mexico and Canada, but they aren't enough to carry the series. You need to grow your fan-base at home, you need to give them a reason to watch.

PS-Hey Hornish, you got any brothers?!

Phew!

[rustyfan]

I think there will be more American drivers, USAC ones in particular, looking towards IndyCar in the future, once the series has stabilized a bit more.

True, the money is still a lot better in NASCAR, but everything is no longer all rosy in stock car land. More and more teams are having problems finding sponsorship. Heck, even Roush Racing and Dale Earnhardt Inc. have been unable to find funding for two of their cars, which says a lot.

[N I Tram]

If Sam goes to NASCAR (which is quite possible in the future, especially if it's what Roger wants to focus on), the situation becomes quite bleak, unless Rice can really shine this year. A lot rides on Phil Giebler getting a go next year - he's an astounding talent.

[kingfloopy]

There has been a massive shift from open wheel to stock cars as the main form of racing the U.S. I think the question that should be asked is why did this happen?

J.D.

[Dakota Hogback]

Originally posted by kingfloopy
There has been a massive shift from open wheel to stock cars as the main form of racing the U.S. I think the question that should be asked is why did this happen?

J.D.

That shift happened forty years ago in grassroots and mid-level oval racing. Even when the open-wheelers had top billing, fans preferred the stockers. It only took longer at the top level because Indy artificially propped up the popularity of open wheel racing by being the dominant race in the country.

I think if both types of racing had equal promotion and similar sized schedules, and all other relevant factors were equal, that the stockers would naturally end up being the preferred type of racing. The fans can relate to a car that's shaped like what they drive better than something that looks more like an airplane.

[jjspierx]

Originally posted by N I Tram
A lot rides on Phil Giebler getting a go next year - he's an astounding talent.

I agree with you completely. Giebler is an amazing talent. I greatly admire him for giving it a go in Europe, spending who knows how much money, living there, driving just about everything except F1. His talents weren't appreciated over there, but maybe over here they will be. I think if he'd stayed over here, he'd already have a ride in Champcar or OWRS, but I applaud him on not settling and trying to achieve his goal in Europe and F1.

[GP Racer]

Originally posted by jjspierx
I think if he'd stayed over here, he'd already have a ride in Champcar or OWRS, but I applaud him on not settling and trying to achieve his goal in Europe and F1.

Hmmm, I'm not real sure about that.

In recent years, a seat for an American in CART, was about as hard to come by as an American looking for a seat in F1...

I had high hopes for Phil as the next American in F1 also, but we'll gladly take his talents in the IRL.

[jjspierx]

Oops, I meant to say Champcar or IRL, not Champcar and OWRS.