DTM 2021

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by stuart thompson

Is there anyway of watching race 2 live? BT sport are not advertising it at all.

Not officially - 'Saturday's race will be broadcast live on BT Sports ESPN, with coverage starting at 12:15pm BST.

The second race of the weekend on Sunday will not be streamed live in the UK due to scheduling clashes'

[stuart thompson]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Not officially - 'Saturday's race will be broadcast live on BT Sports ESPN, with coverage starting at 12:15pm BST.

The second race of the weekend on Sunday will not be streamed live in the UK due to scheduling clashes'

Yes I find that totally baffling, they even showed qualifying, but no mention of the race anywhere.

[WyldStallion]

Originally Posted by Bcarr6

2022 very interesting for European GT3.

DTM has gotten stronger and stronger through its first year with GT3, and the all 'PRO' format has been popular.

How does that affect GTWC and GT Masters?

GT Open is struggling for numbers, British GT is too to a lesser extent, but those are for different reasons

I think the solution is to create a brand new GT3 series! Just kidding.

[tux]

WOW, WOW, WOW. JUST WOW.

[Matt K]

What a crazy finale!

[JoeW04]

Wel I don’t think AF corse will be back which means I doubt Ferrari will be back after that today

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by JoeW04

Wel I don’t think AF corse will be back which means I doubt Ferrari will be back after that today

I’m sure they’d seen DTM before they entered. Also if they get paid again, they’ll be back.

[Matt K]

It's a shame Mercedes played their tactical games, this should be clearly banned - DTM is now all about teams rather than manufacturers so I'd understand if he was helped by his teammates. Otherwise it gets unfair if Mercedes is able to have 8 cars whereas Ferrari 2. I didn't cheer for Ferrari and Lawson and I'm quite happy with Götz being a champion - he was somewhere there all season and avoided s*it that both van der Linde and Lawson were involved in too often - remember that Lawson also had some brainless moves this year.

All in all I think Götz is a deserving champion, it's a shame though, that Mercedes (and not Haupt Racing) clearly played tactical - this shouldn't happen again next season.

Also, I'm quite astonished with level of hate Götz and van der Linde (especially the latter) receive in the social media - some may say it's understandable but really it's not the right way to express criticism and disappointment. Yes, van der Linde may have made a stupid move but it was not as stupid - there've been hundreds of such at Norisring and will be hundreds more. He happened to hit Lawson, yes, that leaves a bad taste but I doubt it was intentional. Götz drove his, clean race - if someone is to receive criticism is Mercedes but not him. If I were Maxi I probably wouldn't feel 100% satisfied but on the other hand it's him who collected most points - if they weren't given after quali, he'd have significantly more points than Lawson. That should say something about his performance throughout the season.

I'm quite amazed seeing so many people crying that it's not Motorsport and they quit watching it. I understand, DTM may not be everyone's thing but on the other hand - don't we all look at history cards fascinated by a lot of drama, controversy and unexpected moments as something that really shaped motorsport and gave a lot of spice to it?

If AF Corse/Red Bull leaves DTM it's quite a shame but on the other hand I wouldn't cry - they shouldn't quit after one failed attempt, this is not what sport is all about.

[M Jones]

Originally Posted by Matt K

It's a shame Mercedes played their tactical games, this should be clearly banned - DTM is now all about teams rather than manufacturers so I'd understand if he was helped by his teammates. Otherwise it gets unfair if Mercedes is able to have 8 cars whereas Ferrari 2. I didn't cheer for Ferrari and Lawson and I'm quite happy with Götz being a champion - he was somewhere there all season and avoided s*it that both van der Linde and Lawson were involved in too often - remember that Lawson also had some brainless moves this year.

All in all I think Götz is a deserving champion, it's a shame though, that Mercedes (and not Haupt Racing) clearly played tactical - this shouldn't happen again next season.

Also, I'm quite astonished with level of hate Götz and van der Linde (especially the latter) receive in the social media - some may say it's understandable but really it's not the right way to express criticism and disappointment. Yes, van der Linde may have made a stupid move but it was not as stupid - there've been hundreds of such at Norisring and will be hundreds more. He happened to hit Lawson, yes, that leaves a bad taste but I doubt it was intentional. Götz drove his, clean race - if someone is to receive criticism is Mercedes but not him. If I were Maxi I probably wouldn't feel 100% satisfied but on the other hand it's him who collected most points - if they weren't given after quali, he'd have significantly more points than Lawson. That should say something about his performance throughout the season.

I'm quite amazed seeing so many people crying that it's not Motorsport and they quit watching it. I understand, DTM may not be everyone's thing but on the other hand - don't we all look at history cards fascinated by a lot of drama, controversy and unexpected moments as something that really shaped motorsport and gave a lot of spice to it?

If AF Corse/Red Bull leaves DTM it's quite a shame but on the other hand I wouldn't cry - they shouldn't quit after one failed attempt, this is not what sport is all about.

I would say when you cut a corner and drive straight into the car in front, you had no intention of making the corner. Espeicially from so far back as well. I think KVL deserves every comment he gets. He even stated in the interview after Q2 that he would "perfect'" the first corner....

Its a shame that KVL brought down an otherwise great season of DTM.

[tux]

No chance KVL did it on purpose imo, the scenario for him to win the championship would require him to finish i think top2? If not first and Lawson not to finish. Doing it on purpose would cause KVL massive risk of a penalty or damage and no guarantee of causing Lawson to finish outside of the points (obviously this did end up happening). Just think he genuinely missed his braking point ever so slightly and thought he would try and make the corner as best as he could. Driving later on in the race might have been on the edge/over it though.

As for the Goetz team orders im surprised that anyones surprised that it happened. From memory the commentator never mentioned it during the race until it actually happened which surprised me because after about 10 minutes it became almost obvious what was going to happen. A. its always happened in DTM B. Ellis/Auer and their teams run across multiple series (GTWC,ADAC GT Masters) so i wouldn't be surprised if Mercedes dont contribute financially or with access to factory drivers.

Doesn't sit well with me but then im miserable so little in modern motorsport does.

[S griffin]

I guess the stakes were high. I too see little point KVL would do it on purpose. He needed to win. You only really see that sort of deliberate stuff when a driver has a points advantage, so I don't what he would have had to gain by doing that. Of course he could have been more aggressive in that situation, but it seemed like a genuine mistake. Although there is no doubt he was making sure he did what he could

And of course the team orders were bound to happen. Obviously no one wanted to admit it, but it was going to happen. Some things don't change. Auer is right to take one for the team. That's life. It will always happen. So there you go

[Rusty Nail]

Originally Posted by tux

No chance KVL did it on purpose imo, the scenario for him to win the championship would require him to finish i think top2? If not first and Lawson not to finish. Doing it on purpose would cause KVL massive risk of a penalty or damage and no guarantee of causing Lawson to finish outside of the points (obviously this did end up happening). Just think he genuinely missed his braking point ever so slightly and thought he would try and make the corner as best as he could. Driving later on in the race might have been on the edge/over it though.

Totally planned move IMO. For him to win he had to get past Lawson and then secure either 1st or 2nd place with Lawson finishing well back. Probably not likely to happen thus KVL really had nothing to lose. Lawson only needed to finish 6th I think to win the championship.

KVL did the same thing in Race 1 but Lawson managed to get out of the way! It was KVL's overly aggressive driving later in Race 2 that caused his puncture and spin. There's karma in this world after all!

What beats me is why Lawson didn't see it coming pre race and plan to brake a little early and satisfy himself with being maybe a safe 2nd or 3rd out of Turn 1. Surely the team would have discussed the strategy?

A real pity for him and I was totally gutted to see the incident but it's a learning experience for him and realistically DTM is essentially only a sideshow for him which gains him extra Super Licence points.

Nevertheless DTM Champ would have had a nice ring to it!

Maxi has had some good drives and I'm glad he picked up the win even if it was with a little help from his friends.

Cassidy too could have been a friend for Liam had there been a few more laps left to get to the front, mind you the Mercs wouldn't have made it easy for him. Sterling drive!

[Jimmy Magnusson]

It was certainly a move of high aggression and with little regard for what happened to Lawson. Of course you don't plan on crashing someone out, because a) you don't and b) you don't know what will happen to your car. What you can do is to use so much space there's none left for the car on the outside and let the chips fall where they may. If KVL had had a better start he could have done it halfway fairly. Instead, he went over the line in a pretty cheap way. If you aspire to be a champion you should also aspire to be better than that.

That said, Lawson could have handled it way better. He's got his championship rival, who has to win the race and for Lawson not to score, probably coming up the inside like a missile on a street circuit. Just hang wide and let him have it. If he's in front he can't crash you out. Lawson isn't in any way responsible for the incident, but with other choices he could have come out with the title.

As for Mercedes and Götz... It would have been a misconduct of duty of Mercedes if they hadn't moved Ellis and Auer. You either have team orders or not and we have them. A champion isn't just about who's driving the car. But to be a champion you have to do your part, and when it mattered, Götz did all he had to from the toughest position of the three. That's a championship performance if any.

[Anyopenroad]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Magnusson

As for Mercedes and Götz... It would have been a misconduct of duty of Mercedes if they hadn't moved Ellis and Auer. You either have team orders or not and we have them.

But Ellis and Auer aren't in his team. If all 6-8 Mercs are de facto one team, why would Ferrari (or Lamborghini, or McLaren) bother entering with only one or two cars?

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by Anyopenroad

But Ellis and Auer aren't in his team.

He who pays the bills calls the tune.

[Matt K]

Originally Posted by Anyopenroad

But Ellis and Auer aren't in his team. If all 6-8 Mercs are de facto one team, why would Ferrari (or Lamborghini, or McLaren) bother entering with only one or two cars?

Mercedes was very honest about how it looks like - they all share data, work together, all teams are financed by Mercedes. Yes, they're separate teams and I wish they were 'more separate' but look how all factory drivers move freely between teams in various championships. Mercedes AMG customer racing is just one organisation, in DTM it's just run by a few teams.

It's a bit unfair but I don't think it was possible for Winward to tell their drivers "you're racing your own race, don't let Gotz by" because they'd face grim consequences from Mercedes. After all they work for Mercedes and if Mercedes is not happy with them, they can just walk away.

[Bcarr6]

Its very clear cut really, all AMG teams are independent teams, but for the DTM are being financed by Mercedes AMG Customer Racing, making AMG their employer for the series essentially (the team is almost like a self-employed person in that scenario).

Obviously with Mercedes bankrolling, the individual teams are going to support the factories ambition of winning the title, and they by all means are going to do so, so they get som more sweet factory funding in the future...

Add the second layer into it, that most of the drivers in Mercedes this year receive their paychecks from the factory, and we are heading into contract renewal territory, then its pretty obvious what they are all going to do.

Doesn't make it great for us the fans, but its completely logical from their perspective.

Its also really not the DTM's fault, and realistically, van der Linde isnt known for those kind of moves either so you cant accuse him of being a horrible driver based on one bad decision.

KVL made a bad move, he probably should have more graciously admitted that sure, but hes not exactly a mega villian for it.

Its a shame the DTM finished that way, but overall was it a good season? Yes.
Was it better than the year before? I'd say so. Racing was more exciting.

I know some of the neighsayers are still upset its just another GT3 series now, but they are also the same people who will probably be upset at DTM's new Electric concept, so how does DTM win there?

[S griffin]

Merc obviously give them some help, they need their brand to do well and they picked a good team to do it. I don't blame them. It hasn't detracted from the series, it's added to it if anything.

[NaBUru38]

2021 DTM final standings:

1. GER Maximilian Götz (HRT Mercedes), 230
2. NZL Liam Lawson (AF Corse Ferrari), 227
3. RSA Kelvin van der Linde (Abt Audi), 208
4. GER Marco Wittmann (Walkenhorst BMW), 171
5. AUT Lucas Auer (HTP Mercedes), 152
6. THA Alex Albon (AF Corse Ferrari), 130
7. SUI Philip Ellis (HTP Mercedes), 129
8. GER Mike Rockenfeller (Abt Audi), 89
9. ESP Daniel Juncadella (GruppeM Mercedes), 77
10. SUI Nico Müller (Rosberg Audi), 56
11. RSA Sheldon van der Linde (Rowe Mercedes), 55
12. IND Arjun Maini (GetSpeed Mercedes), 48

Four different manufacturers in the top 4. Six Mercedes in the top 12.

[Jimmy Magnusson]

Originally Posted by Bcarr6

Its very clear cut really, all AMG teams are independent teams, but for the DTM are being financed by Mercedes AMG Customer Racing, making AMG their employer for the series essentially (the team is almost like a self-employed person in that scenario).

Obviously with Mercedes bankrolling, the individual teams are going to support the factories ambition of winning the title, and they by all means are going to do so, so they get som more sweet factory funding in the future...

Add the second layer into it, that most of the drivers in Mercedes this year receive their paychecks from the factory, and we are heading into contract renewal territory, then its pretty obvious what they are all going to do.

Doesn't make it great for us the fans, but its completely logical from their perspective.

Its also really not the DTM's fault, and realistically, van der Linde isnt known for those kind of moves either so you cant accuse him of being a horrible driver based on one bad decision.

KVL made a bad move, he probably should have more graciously admitted that sure, but hes not exactly a mega villian for it.

Its a shame the DTM finished that way, but overall was it a good season? Yes.
Was it better than the year before? I'd say so. Racing was more exciting.

I know some of the neighsayers are still upset its just another GT3 series now, but they are also the same people who will probably be upset at DTM's new Electric concept, so how does DTM win there?

To be honest, I would have been very frustrated if Mercedes hadn't used team orders and Lawson would have won the title. I would have wondered if they were there to win to begin with.

[Racing Harz]

Harsh criticism from Berger of Mercedes and Kelvin van der Linde. According to him, the entire racing series was damaged by the incidents on Sunday.
https://gt-place.com/2021/10/14/gerh...ring-klartext/

[W2Motorsport]

I don't see how he, or anyone else would have expected a different outcome under those circumstances. If Verstappen needs a win to get the F1 championship and he is third behind Tsunoda and Gasly with a few laps to go what are the chances that Red Bull lets it just play out in the name of sport?

You can't really legislate rules against it because I'm quite sure Auer/Ellis are capable of spinning the car out or making it look accidental if needed. Would you begin penalizing people because they spin out of the lead to the benefit of another car from the same manufacturer? How do you prove it was ordered or done on purpose and wasn't simply a mistake?

[S griffin]

They should know it’s always been a part of the sport. Obviously we don’t want other teams interfering, Verstappen should really rely on his own team to help, not others

Team orders will always be part of the sport. What else could Albon and Ellis do? They’d find a way anyway. Of course some are sneaky about it and make it look like normal racing and that’s fine. But you won’t be able to legislate against team orders, so you might as well keep it, rather than try to hide it and make teams find other ways to make it happen. That’s how it goes

[FIRE]

I don't watch DTM anymore but in the past the big problem was manufacturers used already team tactics in the early part of the season. I don't want that but have no problems if they do in the last one or two rounds.

[S griffin]

The DTM is still going strong. There will always be team tactics, although some have been over the top. What Merc did in the last round was maybe a bit underhand considering, but no worse than what other manufacturers and teams have done in the past