Discussion - is there a design issue with LMP

[RaiseYourFist]

Originally Posted by The Badger

Wouldnt that be ground effect ..... to some degree ?

Well I think that every race car that has a diffuser has ground effects they just arent as effective as if they had the whole underbody shaped up with big tall tunnels.

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by GTfour

Ofcourse there's a solution to this problem! Limit the cars topspeed to about 200km/h or 120 mph,minimum weight of about 1500 kilos and we'd be rid of this problem...

Let's face it,speeds of 200 mph will cause a car to go flying when it goes sideways. DUH!
All is being done to keep them glued to the tarmac by using downforce and groundeffect,but it is logic they'll go flying when that balance is being disturbed!
Hell,a 747 gets airborne at around 260 kph,so unless we'll bring down the speed of our beloved cars to ludicrious low's,we'll forever battle this problem.

It's a part of racing. One know's when one goes blasting of at speeds of 150mph+,that there's a risk! And let's face it,that's part of the attraction of the whole thing,the risk of it all.

We could ofcourse make reallife Scalectirx tracks,were the car's would be secured to the tracks and they'd never ever leave the track and crash...

Well said dude ..... nail on the head .

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by RaiseYourFist

Well I think that every race car that has a diffuser has ground effects they just arent as effective as if they had the whole underbody shaped up with big tall tunnels.

Yep ..... thats true .....

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by GTfour

Ofcourse there's a solution to this problem! Limit the cars topspeed to about 200km/h or 120 mph,minimum weight of about 1500 kilos and we'd be rid of this problem...

and boar spectators to sleep.

It's a part of racing. One know's when one goes blasting of at speeds of 150mph+,that there's a risk! And let's face it,that's part of the attraction of the whole thing,the risk of it all.

There is more risk driving around any major cities beltline during rush hour then on a race track.

Seems that any time something that is air foil shaped and has a high pressure and a low pressure area, and something called "lift" . Just like an airplane, fasten your set belts this is going to be one heck of a ride.......

NASCAR put in the roof flaps to prevent those wild rides a few years ago. Does quite well too

[minimangler]

Can i stick my nose in here and just say "NO" and then leave.

The cars behaved as they were designed to.

End of.

[HORNDAWG]

Well it looks as if this issue may be raised again after the Gené crash.

Maybe run a louvered side panel that would activate a trap door flap under the sidepod by pressure( which would increase as the car gets sideways) and a mercury switch that would monitor inclination. And it could include the bottom radius of the side-pod to keep it from becoming a vaulting mechanism.


L.P.

[ss_collins]

yeah I could see the ACO knee jerking now... thats 4 P1's gone aviating in a matter of weeks

[minimangler]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

Well it looks as if this issue may be raised again after the Gené crash.

Maybe run a louvered side panel that would activate a trap door flap under the sidepod by pressure( which would increase as the car gets sideways) and a mercury switch that would monitor inclination. And it could include the bottom radius of the side-pod to keep it from becoming a vaulting mechanism.


L.P.

i was thinking something similar, ie vents between floor and top surface that open when the air is going at them, not past them.

[Stefvh]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSsorp6F36s

[skycafe]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

Well it looks as if this issue may be raised again after the Gené crash.

Maybe run a louvered side panel that would activate a trap door flap under the sidepod by pressure( which would increase as the car gets sideways) and a mercury switch that would monitor inclination. And it could include the bottom radius of the side-pod to keep it from becoming a vaulting mechanism.


L.P.

Like a high tech form of the roof doors/flaps up into NASCAR stockers.

[jonm2]

Originally Posted by Stefvh

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSsorp6F36s

That was unbelievable.

The car could have cleared the fence

Worse than the Ortelli shunt in my opinion.

Whilst I dislike the ACO's near constant talk of cutting speeds, seeing that footage has certainly made me think that perhaps these cars are going faster than what is reasonably safe around Le mans. Or the designs of the cars have to be looked at closely (again).

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by skycafe

Like a high tech form of the roof doors/flaps up into NASCAR stockers.

Yes. But we don't race no odoriferous bricks here so a more aesthetically pleasing yet functional device is called for!


L.P.

[skycafe]

oops attenuators

[Dani Filth]

it seems that it was helped again by going on the grass ..

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by Dani Filth

it seems that it was helped again by going on the grass ..

It may be the case that it is induced by outside forces and not simply the car being sideways. But with an aero device that was dependant upon pitch also in its deployment, it might alleviate these type of occurrences.


L.P.

[Holt]

Originally Posted by Dani Filth

it seems that it was helped again by going on the grass ..

I'm looking at the replay over and over

If the grass did help him he was only on it for maybe .01 of a second before the car started to lift

The bad part is not that just the fact the car is getting tires off the ground, but how long it stays in the air which doesn't slow the speed down.

The way it just floats through the air is scary, it's not sliding or flipping to scrub off energy and speed, nothing to slow it down until it hits something hard.

I'm wondering if Peugeot has another similiar incident if they will withdraw the cars

99 all over again

[Mal]

I don't think it is a Peugeot only issue so far the airborne incidents haved happened to 4 different chassis.

However it does raised the question of a cars potential to clear a fence with the possibility of disasterous consequences. Clearly the ACO need to look carefully at this issue - I will be camping only a few yards from that accident in the Maison Blanch campsite and I would rather not have a Peugeot join me for breakfast

[brielga]

that is very scary, I've taken pictures there many times and right above there's one of the most popular viewing areas with tons of people and a huge Danish camping right below....

[JAG]

Originally Posted by ss_collins

yeah I could see the ACO knee jerking now... thats 4 P1's gone aviating in a matter of weeks

It depends what you mean by kneejerk.

I think current chassis are here to stay, but I could see the ACO drastically reducing the size of the wings and splitter.

IMO, we should move away from aero downforce, and concentrate on aero efficiency to increase fuel milage, leaving cornering speeds to the ever increasing mechanical grip.

[Tom87]

That was a scary accident! The pitch at which the car hit the wall was sickening! That crash more than any of the previous 3 was testiment to the safety of the chassis!

Although I'm usually against interferrence in the name of safety when its not justified, these accidents combined with the stagering pace of the Peugeots in testing makes me wonder if its time for a bit of an aero rethink...

[Bentley03]

I am deeply concerned and will head to Le Mans next Sunday with my usual excitement tainted by a considerable amount of tension.

The fundamentals of these regs were (and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) conceived as long ago as 2003, that's five years ago. Technology in sportscar racing has moved on considerably since then with the boundaries of what's possible within the rules being pushed ever closer to their limits.

The drivers involved in these incidents aren't gentleman drivers getting out of their depth with toys too big for them, nor are they rookies prone to errors. These are seasoned pros with vast experience of prototype racing.

I hope the ACO are evaluating these accidents as a matter of extreme urgency and will be bold enough to take the necessary action to minimise the risk to drivers.

Yes, we need a rethink...........

[Jimbob-18]

As much as saftey is paramount these days, i don't think there is a drastic cause for concern here. Sure, we've seen 3 accidents like this, this year now. But drivers haven't been seriously injured, or even killed. If drivers still get injured though, there is cause for improvement, but these crashes are freak. If it is such a problem, how come we haven't seen more of these types of accidents in previous years?

[The Badger]

Can we count the B-K Sebring accident as well . It did flip but im not sure if it clipped the wall before . Then we have 4 nasty accidents .

Hats off the the men who design the car !!!

Looking at the Gene/Peugeot accident , it kinda reminded me of the attitude which Greg Moore had hit the wall and died . If that Pug hadn't uprighted itself some , when its left side landed first , it could very well have been the cockpit that contacted the wall first and that outcome would not be something nice to think about .

[Mal]

Originally Posted by Jimbob-18

As much as saftey is paramount these days, i don't think there is a drastic cause for concern here. Sure, we've seen 3 accidents like this, this year now. But drivers haven't been seriously injured, or even killed. If drivers still get injured though, there is cause for improvement, but these crashes are freak. If it is such a problem, how come we haven't seen more of these types of accidents in previous years?

You are right about driver injury, but that doesnt affect the potential for a car to clear the barriers / fencing and land in a marshalls area or even a spectator area. All the time a car has the clear ability to take off during its own accident then that is a clear risk.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by The Badger

If that Pug hadn't uprighted itself some , when its left side landed first , it could very well have been the cockpit that contacted the wall first and that outcome would not be something nice to think about .

Yep, when I first watched it, I thought it had gone in cockpit first. The outcome could have been tragic and I haven't got the slightest doubt that if it is causing us concern here, it is being talked about in earnest by the ACO right now.....