2007 - Year for "changing of the guard"??

[Driver TBA]

Popular wisdom around here (thanks Timu!) suggests that Mr Owen is the Caltex #9 pilot for next season & beyond.

Would this mean Steve is playing seat warmer?

According to one of the motor sport rags they’ve signed a young Kiwi driver (name escapes me) on a long term contract.

[kiwi20]

Shane Van GIsbergen is his name

[TSR]

Originally Posted by pete55

Maybe you could tell me how many were behind Ingall over the weekend, young and old?

Good & fair point pete, but give it time it is only R1 lets see come season end.

[Pro Racer]

i think this year could be the year of the young blokes I.E Courtney, Winterbottom, Whincup, Canto, Holdsworth and also a resurgence of some old blokes I.E Skaife, Murphy, Ingall and the usual suspects of the Kelly bro's Tander and Lowndes will all fight it out for a bith in the top 10

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by Driver TBA

Would this mean Steve is playing seat warmer?

According to one of the motor sport rags they’ve signed a young Kiwi driver (name escapes me) on a long term contract.

AA came out last week and said that story was made up...

Mr van Gisbergen is 17 years old... perhaps a few seasons in FF and development series are in his future, with some SBR assistance... like Frosty managed...

[peckstar]

this all sounds quite repetitive, like repeating a year ago when on sunday jamie todd and rick were on the podium, hang on didnt they all get a go this weekend, just add some courtney.

I just wonder if Clipsal and its heat and long distance suits a younger person than the normal 45 min race

[RotorFan]

I cannot stand this rubbish about "old" racers. Just because a bloke is young, doesnt mean he is a better racer than his seniors. The only thing they arguably have over their elders is recklessness.

I've found cheering for Ingall difficult since EC 2003, on Sunday I was cheering for him to pass Courtney. I know the likes of Skaife and Ingall can win races and championships, their age is not an issue - otherwise they wouldn't be racing at all.

Another thing - late thirties is not old! Early forties is mature, but it certainly does not mean incapable!

[BlueMax]

I agree with you RF. If you use the logic that is on here Jason Bright must be getting worried at 33 along with Bargs, Steve Richards and Murph who turn 35 this year. It use to be on here that if you are not under 40 you are past it. It's know getting to be if you are not under 30 you are past it.

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by peckstar

I just wonder if Clipsal and its heat and long distance suits a younger person than the normal 45 min race

The heat, or something. This round seems to give the youngsters a boost somehow, and it's a good thing to see so many of them doing so well. Over the course of a season I suspect the usual suspects will still come to the fore, but it won't be long before a whole bunch of up-and-coming start to put a championship together.

I have to say, I'm very impressed by the rate of improvement in Mr Courtney. He showed no real promise up here in various formulae, which was probably down to team or finance in hindsight, and started last year in over-exuberant fashion. He's rapidly become not only blindingly fast, but a safe pair of hands too, and is surely a champion in waiting.

[rustyinsthoz]

Originally Posted by RotorFan

I cannot stand this rubbish about "old" racers. Just because a bloke is young, doesnt mean he is a better racer than his seniors. The only thing they arguably have over their elders is recklessness.

I've found cheering for Ingall difficult since EC 2003, on Sunday I was cheering for him to pass Courtney. I know the likes of Skaife and Ingall can win races and championships, their age is not an issue - otherwise they wouldn't be racing at all.

Another thing - late thirties is not old! Early forties is mature, but it certainly does not mean incapable!

The evidence doesn't back you up. Once in to your late thirties it becomes harder to maintain a high level off fitness and your reaction times start to slow down. Both are important in driving a race car.

Only 2 drivers, 40 or over have won the V8 Championship, Bowe and Ingall.

So it is understandable why Ingall, Bowe, Jones, Skaife etc ain't the drivers they once were. With cars separated by only only 100ths of a second these days, age becomes a more significant factor in the equation when racing against younger drivers than it once was.

[RotorFan]

I suppose Skaife got all those poles and fastest laps last year from being too slow? And Ingall's championship?

How many blokes are actually over 40 in the championship? Is it any wonder why the over-40s championship winners are in the minority? It stands to reason that fewer champions are over 40 when most of the drivers in contention are under 40.

[dsg]

Originally Posted by RotorFan

I suppose Skaife got all those poles and fastest laps last year from being too slow? And Ingall's championship?

How many blokes are actually over 40 in the championship? Is it any wonder why the over-40s championship winners are in the minority? It stands to reason that fewer champions are over 40 when most of the drivers in contention are under 40.

Your backing up what rustyinsthoz said.

Is it that Skaife can get poles and fastest laps but cannot maintain the speed to win races?

Is it because they are no longer quick we see far less drivers in their forties?

[Rick]

Originally Posted by Woolley

He showed no real promise up here in various formulae,

I think we have been through this before, but what??

1996 - World Formula A Kart Championship, 4th
1997 - World Formula A Kart Championship, 1st
2000 - British Formula Ford Championship, 1st
2001 - British Formula 3 Championship, 4th
Formula One Test Drive debut with Jaguar at Monza
2002 - British Formula 3 Championship, 2nd
Formula One Test Driver with Jaguar

and the only reason he didn't win the F3 title in 2002 was a Jaguar (mechanical failure) nearly killed him!!

Just how much more promise can you show?

[mac]

Originally Posted by Woolley

I have to say, I'm very impressed by the rate of improvement in Mr Courtney. He showed no real promise up here in various formulae, which was probably down to team or finance in hindsight, and started last year in over-exuberant fashion. He's rapidly become not only blindingly fast, but a safe pair of hands too, and is surely a champion in waiting.

Were you ever watching!?

As Rick said, he's a world junior karting champion, world senior karting champion, British Formula Ford champion, second in the British F3 championship (after injury forced him to miss two rounds), former Jaguar F1 tester (which was kyboshed after a massive testing accident at Monza caused by a failed rear wing and causing the aforementioned injury), dominated Japanese F3, and dominated Macau until his tyre was punctured by debris.

There are much less qualified racers going around in F1 at the moment. He is one of those that got away in Europe.

[Woolley]

OK, point taken. Results look impressive as bold stats and I acknowledge them entirely. I failed to explain myself properly, so consider the following.

Kart titles are impressive and give an indication of pace (and finance) and you can't be a slouch to win them. They're not necessarily a pointer to how you'll go in cars. FFord too is a specialized arena, especially the Zetec cars, and success has for a long time been more about being in the right team and car with sufficient funding. When he was in it, the series was at a lower ebb with other competing series, and the feeling genrally was that the better drivers were mainly elsewhere, and so nothing conclusive could be drawn from that.

British F3 has always been an odd beast. It's a series in which Marc Hynes triumphed over Jenson Button, for instance, Takuma Sato beat Andy Priaulx and Jan Magnusson made everyone look very ordinary and then went on to do virtually nothing afterwards. You had to be in the right team (you still do) to win it, and while it is a very good training ground, success in it is not necessarily a pointer to future greatness. Having marshalled at several rounds, James only really appeared competent with little to indicate star quality. He didn't excite, and I can't really explain why. As I say, this is my perception from the time. The Jaguar drive probably contributes to that. We didn't know at that time that it was more of a poison chalice and would destroy the reputation of Pizzonia, for instance, who really did look like a world champion on the way up. In addition, the accident gave the impression that we'd probably seen the best of young James.

Originally Posted by mac

There are much less qualified racers going around in F1 at the moment. He is one of those that got away in Europe.

And that pretty much sums up what I meant to say in the first place, much more succinctly than I can manage. We didn't spot what he was capable of here, and I'm delighted to be being proved wrong by his emergence over the last season. It's one thing to be groomed for success and to continue as expected, it's another thing altogether to break preconceptions and make it on pure talent and the assistance of someone with a hunch or better vision than the rest of us. Well done to the Brothers Stone for spotting him and sticking with him through last year's early season woes. Truly a champion in the making.

So to tie this in to the thread, I suspect this is the beginning of the change to the next generation. Several other youngsters are showing great promise and it won't be long before all the teams will be wondering whether their established, highly paid star has much in the way of championships left, or should they be looking to grab and groom someone who could have several wins over the next 10 years.

[Placebo]

It is the dawn of exciting times.
There are clearly some good youngsters in good machinery (eg. Frosty, Whincup, the Kelly's, Courtney, etc.) and others in lesser machinery also punching above their weight (eg. Canto, Holdsworth, Owen).
I can't help wondering if (after the fight he's been having with the new VE) Dean was wishing he could have his VZ back from Lee.

Anyway, there must be some older drivers struggling to achieve who are looking over their shoulders.

[mctshirt]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Mr van Gisbergen is 17 years old... perhaps a few seasons in FF and development series are in his future, with some SBR assistance... like Frosty managed...

Why would van Gisbergen bother going back to Formula Ford based on the fact that in his first year (2005/2006) in Formula Ford van Gisbergen absolutely dominated winning the championship by a country mile, IIRC won every round with 5 pole postions, 12 race wins and 5 second places. This year (2006/2007) he's second (including two round wins) in the Toyota Racing Series to Daniel Gaunt with one round to go...check out www.shanevangisbergen.com He started out racing quads then TQ Midgets on dirt speedway tracks clocking up a number of wins there and a lap record at Western Springs.

SBR would be lucky to get him even without a few seasons in FF and development V8's

[kiwi20]

Originally Posted by mctshirt

Why would van Gisbergen bother going back to Formula Ford based on the fact that in his first year (2005/2006) in Formula Ford van Gisbergen absolutely dominated winning the championship by a country mile, IIRC won every round with 5 pole postions, 12 race wins and 5 second places. This year (2006/2007) he's second (including two round wins) in the Toyota Racing Series to Daniel Gaunt with one round to go...check out www.shanevangisbergen.com He started out racing quads then TQ Midgets on dirt speedway tracks clocking up a number of wins there and a lap record at Western Springs.

SBR would be lucky to get him even without a few seasons in FF and development V8's

Lap records at Springs was in 1/4 midgets never really did anything in TQs only did like 4 meetings though