[BTCC] BTCC 2021

[medius]

I can see Jason look into being more involved in the management side of PMR. He's stated on record in recent years he enjoys the wheeling and deal making part of motorsport as much or more than racing now he's older. Couple that with Adam weavers desire to bring through young talent and maybe JP is the next Mark Blundell in terms of being a career manager?

[thetool]

I think Plato will really fancy another serious attempt at the title before retiring. Towards the end of 2019 he was right back on the pace again.

[Matt K]

Maybe he'll give himself a year or two and then (depending on how he fares) he may decide to retire and focus on a more managerial role. With regards to that, I'm all for it. Like JP or not, he's got a great marketability, he can potentially attract some backing from sponsors/manufacturers and so on. So yes, hopefully he'll be another Mark Blundell in this regard.

[Sodemo]

I guess it makes sense from a marketing standpoint to tie in a hybrid road car with the BTCC hybrid tech. One thing that they should consider is running a sleeker model. I know they are tied to a UK model for sale, but they need to look at something A3 saloon shaped as I think the Astra hatchback is too squat and stumpy and appears to have the aerodynamic efficiency of a brick. Are they still struggling for straight line speed as of end of 2019?

[Matt K]

Apart from Astra the only option would be to bring Insignia back. Aerodynamics of this car look better than that of Astra, the question is with Insignia being even longer than a Beemer, isn't it simply too long?

[S griffin]

I always thought the Insignia looked quite long, looked like something you’d see try and break the land speed record

[VXDave]

Originally Posted by Matt K

Apart from Astra the only option would be to bring Insignia back. Aerodynamics of this car look better than that of Astra, the question is with Insignia being even longer than a Beemer, isn't it simply too long?

I would agree that it's likely to be too big for the tight, twisty uk circuits. The latest insignia is even bigger than the last and dwarfs a 3 series. I think the 3 series and Infinity just about get away with being big because they are RWD which punches them out of tight bends and helps change of direction. An FWD car of that size would likely struggle with change of direction and exiting hairpins. I seem to recall that even when the CC was a front runner, it was better suited to the fast, flowing circuits...

[Alfisti]

Insignia is simply too big. It would be a nightmare at, for example, Knockhill. Long straight bits yes, the aero is good, but I cannot see a car of that length making sense. I don't know where Tony Gilham's future plans have gotten too, but I don't see him replacing the CC's with their current VW equivalent the Arteon. It's another big beast like the Insignia. Perfect for soaking up motorway miles on cruise control in supreme comfort.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

I'm not saying it is 100% accurate, but some circles are reporting that a VXR-badged Astra will be appearing as soon as 2021:

Carbuyer: 'a plug-in hybrid version of the new Astra will be offered. [...] The Hybrid4 will be badged as a VXR model, Vauxhall’s performance moniker, and it’ll have the acceleration and handling to suit the VXR badge. '

msn: 'But the Astra Hybrid4 VXR, [...] is expected to go on sale shortly after the new Astra’s launch in 2021.'

I guess the chance of 2021 seeing a VXR in the BTCC depends on how much PSA (and the UK dealer network) want to get the VXR brand back in the forefront of the general public? It would mean moving to the new model, which PMR have not indicated as a possibility yet so I expect it is unlikely.

Some might argue that running an Astra VXR in the BTCC does not fit with the showroom model being a 1.6L (rumoured). But that hasn't stopped Motorbase sticking ST on their Focus, when the showroom model is a 2.3L.

The fast Astra - if it gets production go ahead - will, like the fast Corsa, share it's Peugeot brother's parts bin. So the new 308 in this case. Likely a turbocharged 1.6 petrol with a hybrid gubbins.

Unfortunately the linked articles are typical "Auto Express" style mock up a new car that isn't announced and pad out with any legit sounding reference you can find. Or failing that, invent it. I used to write some of this rubbish in a past life.

I also believe the electric MG estate for sale in the UK story to be ********. The market is not anywhere near to being at a volume where the likes of VW, PSA, Ford can sell an electric estate and turn a profit. Mr Chinaman's tiny market share would certainly not return a margin. Guess we'll see - but estate cars simply don't sell to family buyers anymore - they mostly buy SUV tanks. Sales reps tool around in estates, but they need diesel.

[Sodemo]

They need the Astra Saloon, but its not available in the UK, which I find an odd decision as its got a similar shape profile to the UK Civic and the i30 fastback, yet Vauxhall don't deem it as a desirable addition to their car roster?

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

The fast Astra - if it gets production go ahead - will, like the fast Corsa, share it's Peugeot brother's parts bin. So the new 308 in this case. Likely a turbocharged 1.6 petrol with a hybrid gubbins.

I think the closest we have to a verified source comes in the official press release from Vauxhall.

'VAUXHALL CONTINUES TO CHARGE! EIGHT ELECTRIFIED MODELS BY 2021'
In the release, they refer to the following as having electric variants:
Corsa-e, Grandland X Hybrid4.
Vivaro van, Mokka X, Combo, Combo Life, Vivaro Life, an electrified version of the next generation Astra.

So it seems that Vauxhall have confirmed an electric version of the Astra by the end of 2021, but whether this will carry a VXR badge is not mentioned.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

They need the Astra Saloon, but its not available in the UK, which I find an odd decision as its got a similar shape profile to the UK Civic and the i30 fastback, yet Vauxhall don't deem it as a desirable addition to their car roster?

Outside of the executive market, Saloon sales in the UK are continunig to decline:

[Sodemo]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Outside of the executive market, Saloon sales in the UK are continunig to decline:

Its odd though that in Europe, I generally see far more saloons, whenever I have been to Italy or Spain, they seem to get saloon versions of cars we don't get in the UK...?

One thing is certain is that the saloon shape is more efficient at cutting through the air, so if that is the case, then all road going electric cars should be of a saloon shape too, if efficiency and green credentials are important for the public and car makers.

[Craner Curves]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

Its odd though that in Europe, I generally see far more saloons, whenever I have been to Italy or Spain, they seem to get saloon versions of cars we don't get in the UK...?

One thing is certain is that the saloon shape is more efficient at cutting through the air, so if that is the case, then all road going electric cars should be of a saloon shape too, if efficiency and green credentials are important for the public and car makers.

Because we don't buy (or company car lease) saloons apart from the 3 Series, C Class etc. The sectors below are all hatchback dominated. Europe is a different kettle of fish.

[antnee]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

I also believe the electric MG estate for sale in the UK story to be ********.

The launch is expected any day now - https://mg.co.uk/mg5-ev/

[antnee]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

I think the closest we have to a verified source comes in the official press release from Vauxhall.

'VAUXHALL CONTINUES TO CHARGE! EIGHT ELECTRIFIED MODELS BY 2021'
In the release, they refer to the following as having electric variants:
Corsa-e, Grandland X Hybrid4.
Vivaro van, Mokka X, Combo, Combo Life, Vivaro Life, an electrified version of the next generation Astra.

So it seems that Vauxhall have confirmed an electric version of the Astra by the end of 2021, but whether this will carry a VXR badge is not mentioned.

Electrified does not equal electric. Most likely a 48v mild-hybrid introduced on the current generation. The next gen will probably move to the same platform as the new C4, which is available in electric and ICE variants.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by antnee

Electrified does not equal electric. Most likely a 48v mild-hybrid introduced on the current generation. The next gen will probably move to the same platform as the new C4, which is available in electric and ICE variants.

Yes, agreed. An error in my post.
I should have said 'hybrid Astra expected to be in 2021'.

If Vauxhall are genuinely interested in reviving the VXR, I'd expect this to be a 1.6L/48V hybrid designed to hit a low 0-60, appealing to the Max Power crowd.

Although seeing as how more recent SRi variants have targeted the mid-life crisis crowd longing for the return of a Cavalier SRi, but ending up with a bottom-spec, underpowered barge, it wouldn't surprise me if VXR becomes a trim, like Zetec.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by antnee

Electrified does not equal electric. Most likely a 48v mild-hybrid introduced on the current generation.

Their press release suggests it's a next-gen Astra during 2021.

[Moneyseeker]

Slightly OT, but owning a self charging hybrid that I am about to change for a new petrol car in September, I am a bit unconvinced by the technology. I have an SUV style car and I have found that by dragging round a load of batteries and electric motor that then reduces the size of the fuel tank, you are left with a car with no range.

I filled it up recently and despite having done only two relatively short journeys - 80 miles each - it now tells me I have 335 miles of petrol left.

Fortunately I don't do many miles per in it, if I did it would drive me mad having to constantly stop and top up the fuel.

By contrast, we have just bought a new Citroen Berlingo turbo diesel, 8 speed auto - I am getting 64mpg and you can literally fill it up and forget it - I have done two reasonable size trips in it and still have 600 miles of fuel left!

[RS67]

Originally Posted by Moneyseeker

Slightly OT, but owning a self charging hybrid that I am about to change for a new petrol car in September, I am a bit unconvinced by the technology. I have an SUV style car and I have found that by dragging round a load of batteries and electric motor that then reduces the size of the fuel tank, you are left with a car with no range.

I filled it up recently and despite having done only two relatively short journeys - 80 miles each - it now tells me I have 335 miles of petrol left.

Fortunately I don't do many miles per in it, if I did it would drive me mad having to constantly stop and top up the fuel.

By contrast, we have just bought a new Citroen Berlingo turbo diesel, 8 speed auto - I am getting 64mpg and you can literally fill it up and forget it - I have done two reasonable size trips in it and still have 600 miles of fuel left!

You need to get a car that gives you smiles per mile and don't worry about how often you have to refill it.
My car has a smaller tank than my previous similar car, the extra space taken up by a trick AWD system. The grin just never stops.

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

...estate cars simply don't sell to family buyers anymore - they mostly buy SUV tanks.

This is as depressing as it is true. Spend more, get less.

[antnee]

Originally Posted by Moneyseeker

Slightly OT, but owning a self charging hybrid that I am about to change for a new petrol car in September, I am a bit unconvinced by the technology. I have an SUV style car and I have found that by dragging round a load of batteries and electric motor that then reduces the size of the fuel tank, you are left with a car with no range.

I filled it up recently and despite having done only two relatively short journeys - 80 miles each - it now tells me I have 335 miles of petrol left.

Fortunately I don't do many miles per in it, if I did it would drive me mad having to constantly stop and top up the fuel.

By contrast, we have just bought a new Citroen Berlingo turbo diesel, 8 speed auto - I am getting 64mpg and you can literally fill it up and forget it - I have done two reasonable size trips in it and still have 600 miles of fuel left!

If your typical journeys suit it, plug-in hybrids can be a absolute winner. Mine does over 40 miles on a charge. In the last 3 weeks I have done 315 miles, of which only 20 were on petrol power. When I am back to working in the office, my commuting costs will drop from £7/day to £1/day.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Their press release suggests it's a next-gen Astra during 2021.

I'm afraid that the 2021 date is looking like a miss to me. Why do I say this?

Officially PSA have not announced which factories will produce the cars. Ellesmere Port is very much status not determined.

It takes an awful lot of planning and several months of hard physical graft to ready a factory for a new model.

If 2021 is still "on" then we have to be looking at Q3 or Q4.

I've also seen part requirement forecasts at a first tier component supplier for the current car, and they go deep into the year.

And if that's the case then if there is intention for a next gen Astra BTCC car it would be 2022 at the earliest I reckon.

Can we get back to Jason Plato in a factory Volvo rumours now?

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

I'm afraid that the 2021 date is looking like a miss to me. Why do I say this?

The press release from Vauxhall was issued in late 2019, and the next gen Astra being electrified was the last on the list.
So probably late 2021 was optimistic at the time, and recent circumstances may have delayed that.

I suspect we're probably looking at, realistically, a 2022 hybrid next-gen Astra VXR in the BTCC.

[RS67]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

It takes an awful lot of planning and several months of hard physical graft to ready a factory for a new model.

It shouldn't take that long. Most car manufacturers will be building the new model alongside existing models. Any alterations needed to the production line should be able to take place during the three week summer shutdown.