[Team] Aston Martin Racing in 2023. One of the cars still has Alonso.

[seanyb505]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

I remember when Lewis Hamilton went through his petulant phase, it became rather predictable and tedious. I much prefer the Lewis Hamilton we have now.

Luckily they fixed his tires this year.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Who - Lawrence Stroll?

My comment was about Stroll selling his stake. If he is still a brand ambassador, he's not doing a great job.

Sorry, my bad, I didn't read your post properly!

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Sorry, my bad, I didn't read your post properly!

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

I remember when Lewis Hamilton went through his petulant phase, it became rather predictable and tedious. I much prefer the Lewis Hamilton we have now.

Yes same here, he's certainly come a long way.

[Born Racer]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Thread title change - love it

It seemed like the ideal simplified precursor to the inevitable discussion about the divisive driver.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Born Racer

It seemed like the ideal simplified precursor to the inevitable discussion about the divisive driver.

Oh God, Villeneuve isn't coming back again, is he?

[skycafe]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Oh God, Villeneuve isn't coming back again, is he?

He has an option with McLaren

[GTRMagic]

Webber to Renault?

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Webber to Renault?

Is Fisi still available to return to Renault? Or Piquet, I mean we know he follows the team orders, well followed until he was fired

[Tourer]

Article here on Aston Martin and it's way forward - fairly vague but it IS easy to forget at times that there is a LOT of change going on there and it'll be one of the ongoing stories for the next 2-3 years I reckon, whether the "little team that could" gets beyond the occasionally great result and is able to run closer to the front consistently.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

Is Fisi still available to return to Renault?

I don't see why not, has race suit, will drive!


(Fisico, 49 years, earlier this month at the Adelaide street circuit.)

[chillibowl]

for sure a big weekend for the team and both Alonso and Stroll were brilliant, but is this the start of a new era or just the team returning to its Force India punching above its weight class pedigree?

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

for sure a big weekend for the team and both Alonso and Stroll were brilliant, but is this the start of a new era or just the team returning to its Force India punching above its weight class pedigree?

As to the "weight class" topic. I think we previously might have used team budget level to define the appropriate team "class"?

I would love to see a chart of budgets by team and understand who is spending to the caps and who is not. So if more teams are right at the cap then they would be in the same "class". Is Stroll Sr. not massively investing in the team? New facilities, new wind tunnel, etc.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/a...nger/10416242/

So, I think Aston Martin are funded to the budget cap? If so, are they still some type of underdog that is punching up? I think maybe not.

Richard

[chillibowl]

fair point, the notion of weight class/most points per dollar spent may be a moot comparison point to teams in budget cap era.

infrastructure/capital improvements, which are outside the cap but have their own limits (i believe), may be the bigger differentiator now days?

[Akrapovic]

I do think momentum has a lot to do with it though.

If you have 2 teams spending to the budget cap, and one of them is a multiple world championship winning team, and the other hasn't had a win, then regardless of spend, one of these is better placed than another.

Experience and momentum are important.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

infrastructure/capital improvements, which are outside the cap but have their own limits (i believe), may be the bigger differentiator now days?

I could be wrong, but I don't think there are limits on some of the infrastructure stuff? But at the end of the day, you still have to pay the people to run it? Such as RBR and their free food problem! There is absolutely new limits on infra/equipment/tooling for the power unit manufactures. But I "think" the teams themselves still have some big areas in which costs are excluded.

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Experience and momentum are important.

Absolutely. Take McLaren (and even Aston Martin) as examples. I think both AM and McLaren are expected to get new wind tunnels in 2023 and 2024 respectively. So there may be a bit of "getting used" to the new equipment vs. someone who has been using top equipment for years. Also, bringing new talent to the team requires some time to "gel" and be productive.

Plus, I think direction of growth is a factor. So teams who were under the current limits and are growing organically up to the cap might be better situated (they are were on the rise) vs. those who are large and have to shrink (find ways to restructure to be smaller).

Richard

[veeten]

This has all the earmarks of a previous situation, namely Honda and Super Aguri. Or, as a certain Mr. Hobbs used to call them, "Super Best Friends".
Throughout that season, even with both teams using similar builds, the second team would outpace and outdo the major one, leaving many Honda team engineers quite perplexed.
This seems to be the case with Mercedes, as Aston Martin has found the answer with the same stuff, making the lead team willing to chuck their present car and redo it, with some input from Aston.

[Teretonga]

When the hybrid era began Mercedes obviously got it right, better than anyone else at the time, and dominated for half a decade or more.
But there were cries of foul, and boring, so the FIA, organized a committee under the leadership of Ross Brawn to bring closer racing.
That involved a rethink on what was needed, and we now have a 'new era' that has a lot more dependence on aerodynamics.
That has effectively altered the slope of the playing field back towards the favour of Red Bull.
This is because since the late 80's when a young bloke named Adrian Newey with a strong interest and understanding of aerodynamics designed a March Judd (Leyton House) he has been an instrumental leader amongst all designers of how to use aero to maximize performance.
The emergence therefore of Red Bull being in such dominant form should surprise no one who knows anything about the history of Formula One engineering.

Mr Stroll (Snr) obviously knew this and even after the success of the 'pink Mercedes' he would have been aware of the need to have someone who understood aerodynamics and the state of the new rules, what worked, and what did not.
So when Stroll decided to empty his cheque account to forge the new identity of Aston Martin he hired Newey's understudy Dan Fallows.
This year's car is the first complete car, conceived, conceptually designed, and built under Fallows engineering leadership.
Alonso would have fully understood this when he signed on.

Stroll isn't ignorant of how to create a winning team. He didn't get where he is by being ignorant of how to create success and build an image that would capture people's imagination and following.
So to see Dan Fallows design concept emerge as the most successful reiteration after Red Bull in the opening event of the 2023 season shouldn't be a surprise to anyone who understood where F1 is going and where the real engineering power lies.

Under the 'new era' regulations the emergence of teams and designers who really understand aerodynamics and can conceptualize an approach that has a full understanding of the inter-relationships of the facets of aerodynamic lift, drag and balance are going to be the dominant leaders in this era.
This is no different from 2009 when Brawn astonished most people and Newey then examined the rulebook with his creative genius and applied it giving RBR four years of championship winning racing.

Newey is still the overall moderator of RBR engineering and car concept and is by far the most capable F1 's aerodynamicists in his generation.
And these current rules are perfect for someone of his ability to take the lead and maximize their potential.
Fallows was his understudy and obviously Stroll spent his money in the right places. It is highly likely that until the next major rule change in three years (2026) we will have another RBR era and it is highly likely that Aston Martin will be the ones leading the tail behind them.

Whether or not there should be a move away from aero dependence in the next set of regulations depends on your view about the place of aero developments in F1.
But that is another question and should be another thread of its own.

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

I do think momentum has a lot to do with it though.

If you have 2 teams spending to the budget cap, and one of them is a multiple world championship winning team, and the other hasn't had a win, then regardless of spend, one of these is better placed than another.

Experience and momentum are important.

Spot on. Just like nobody should have thought Mercedes would recover from last year's nightmare car in one winter, or that Red Bull's budget cap trouble would affect them much in 2023/4. All these things, good and bad, take time to work through the system of experience.

[S griffin]

Merc will be back up there, it takes time. Anyway Red Bull may not need the budget cap to hold them back. Wait a few races and then we'll see where things are at. Like if Aston are still up there

[crmalcolm]

Article in Italian press here - https://www.gazzetta.it/Formula-1/23...dal-2026.shtml

For those unable to translate - the Planet F1 summary reads 'Aston Martin are purportedly set to trade in their Mercedes-Benz engines for a new power unit supplier in 2026.

A report in Italy’s Gazzetta dello Sport claims that the Aston Martin team are sensationally set to switch their power unit suppliers to Honda for 2026, securing a deal with the Japanese manufacturer to replace their current Mercedes units.'

[S griffin]

Now that's a bit of news. Thanks for translating. Let's see where they are in a few years and whether Merc will continue to supply other teams. That is quite a scoop there. Considering where Aston are now, it's quite something they are planning to change in a few years time. Let's hope this deal doesn't distract too much from this year, there's a chance it could do

[chillibowl]

so forgive me for asking as i have not been actively following the back and forth between RB Powertrains and Honda...

but i had thought RBPT were entering into a partnership with Ford and the Honda badge would be gone by 2026.

would this mean Honda are now staying in F1 post 2026 and will be exclusive to AM? and a completely separate PU to the one RBPT and Ford will be developing for 2026 onwards?

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Now that's a bit of news. Thanks for translating. Let's see where they are in a few years and whether Merc will continue to supply other teams. That is quite a scoop there. Considering where Aston are now, it's quite something they are planning to change in a few years time. Let's hope this deal doesn't distract too much from this year, there's a chance it could do

The PU for 2026 will be quite different from the one currently in use.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/a...QO7jtFxQR.html

[veeten]

It stands to reason that McLaren would've done this, but Aston Martin deciding to go this route at this stage, says plenty about their belief in Honda, and the scepticisms in Mercedes. This season, they can easily pass and surpass the main team, but still have significant problems with the Honda-powered Red Bulls.

And since they will be partnering with Ford in '26, why not make a deal with the one that gave them so much.