Heidfeld confirmed in the Williams (merged) - Page 3

EERO · 31 Jan 2005, 19:20 (Ref:1214009)

Heidfeld is a tough and gritty little driver. He gets down to business with a minimum of fuss. Let the press and the fans fawn over Webber. Heidfeld will be right there with him all season and give him a real challenge.

Knowlesy · 31 Jan 2005, 19:31 (Ref:1214024)

Webber is very good but so over-rated.

I fancy Nick to beat him.

Glen · 31 Jan 2005, 19:51 (Ref:1214031)

It still astounds me how many of you find webber over-rated. Additional speed such as he got out of that Jaguar just does not come with a fluke, or a series of flukes. The car always devoured its tyres and was therefore a very poor race car - but make no mistake, the speed just has to be genuine - there is no other explanation.

I do rate NH aswell, so I don't expect the battle to be heavily one-sided, but I will be extremely taken aback if Webber doesn't prove his critics wrong.

BSchneiderFan · 31 Jan 2005, 20:03 (Ref:1214041)

Quote:

Originally Posted by martyn bott

Evenly matched won't win you a WDC,ask Ferrari.

Seemed to work for McLaren in 1988, and Williams in 1996.

marcus · 31 Jan 2005, 20:52 (Ref:1214074)

pfffffffffffffffffffffffffffff pffffffffffffffffffffffffffff and double pfffffffffffffffffffffffTTTTTTTTTTTT

BootsOntheSide · 31 Jan 2005, 21:10 (Ref:1214089)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glen

It still astounds me how many of you find webber over-rated. Additional speed such as he got out of that Jaguar just does not come with a fluke, or a series of flukes. The car always devoured its tyres and was therefore a very poor race car - but make no mistake, the speed just has to be genuine - there is no other explanation.

Remember that Webber had generally poor team-mates, and certainly had the bulk of the team's support within a few races. Wilson was always chosen as a stop-gap, the team must've known that Red Bull would exert their influence on teh 2004 driver - and deep down they never really wanted Klien, they even later admitted to that. It could be that Webber was merely on the level to be expected from the car. Klien often seemed to put up just as much of a fight on raceday.

Incidentally, it's interesting to see Webber's words regarding Heidfeld's arrival - that he sees Nick as an impressive driver, and doesn't automatically regard himself as the lead driver. This is all very pragmatic and honest, but would he have said it if teamed with Pizzonia? Is he really a team player, or just someone who expects the team to bow to his every whim?

I fully agree that Nick is the right man for the drive, but I'm sure Mark had a hand in the decision. Remember that if Keke Rosberg had chosen his 1985 team-mate, Mansell would never have got the chance, and Senna's insistance that Lotus didn't split their limited resources on two good drivers denied Derek Warwick his chance in favour of the useless Johnny Dumfries.

KE30MAN · 31 Jan 2005, 21:14 (Ref:1214091)

The right decision has been made, two very good drivers, I think Webber will have a slight edge in pace but very close. I don't think it will hurt either if them to have a strong team mate.

I get tired of hearing that Webber is over rated. What exactly does he have to do to prove he's quality? He has beaten every team mate that he has had and despite their perceived quality, or lack of it, you can only race against whomever is along side of you.

I look forward to Heidfeld being along side of Mark, but I wish it had of been Button!

Dan Fielden · 31 Jan 2005, 21:17 (Ref:1214092)

I told u that i had a reliable source

Its fantastic news isn't it

Dan Fielden · 31 Jan 2005, 21:24 (Ref:1214097)

[QUOTE=knowlesy] very good I fancy Nick [QUOTE]

Wow knowsley. Get in touch with his agent . Im only messin mate. But i agree I feel that Nick will get the better of Webber and i seriousley think that, if the car is up to it, he may very well win a race!

Dan Fielden · 31 Jan 2005, 21:29 (Ref:1214103)

I can't do quotes for some reason

LOL

BootsOntheSide · 31 Jan 2005, 21:51 (Ref:1214120)

Quote:

Originally Posted by KE30MAN

I get tired of hearing that Webber is over rated. What exactly does he have to do to prove he's quality? He has beaten every team mate that he has had and despite their perceived quality, or lack of it, you can only race against whomever is along side of you.

So why did Webber get more credit for trouncing Pizzonia (with 1 year of extra experience) than Nick got for beating Raikkonen (with 1 year of extra experience)? Which aprt of Nick's record against his team-mates doesn't mark him out as an impressive signing? To be hoenst, Webber hasn't proved himself to be anything mroe than moderately good so far - this season should change that.

BAR-Honda · 31 Jan 2005, 21:55 (Ref:1214124)

Well Done Nick!

Williams have made the right choice i think. It will be interesting to see what he can do becuase he was awesome in F3000 but has never had the right car in F1. Lets hope the FW27 gives him the chance.

Glen · 31 Jan 2005, 21:56 (Ref:1214127)

Partly taking up my role as a Williams believer I know, but I do expect Williams to win races (plural!) in 2005. I don't see why not anyway, unless Bridgestone run away with things - which is unlikely.

Mind you - I thought that this time last year. But the driver department left a lot to be desired in 2004 - Montoya was frustrating and inconsistent (which I hated so much, because he is a driver that fits right into my template for great driver status when he's on form) and Ralf was all of that plus unlucky, grumpy and lazy to boot.

To let you in to a secret (and open myself up to derision!) I stand to win £500 if Webber gets the WDC (£20 bet) - so I've kinda painted myself into a Webber corner as far as cheering him on goes. Probably be the kiss of death for his chances then.

mac · 31 Jan 2005, 21:58 (Ref:1214128)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

Remember that Webber had generally poor team-mates, and certainly had the bulk of the team's support within a few races.

Which he earnt by being demonstrably quicker than his teammates. If you recall, many believed Pizzonia would be quicker than Webber ....... wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

Klien often seemed to put up just as much of a fight on raceday.

Except he was usually fighting for 12th and 13th, and Webber was scrapping for points.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

Is he really a team player, or just someone who expects the team to bow to his every whim?

I'm beginning to think you have some sort of issue with Mark.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

I fully agree that Nick is the right man for the drive, but I'm sure Mark had a hand in the decision.

If Nick is the right man for the drive and Mark had some say in the decision, I don't see your problem.

Let's see, Mark was involved in the making of a correct decision - you're right! Let's get him in the stocks now and we can all throw tomatoes at him! Canned tomatoes!

Glen · 31 Jan 2005, 22:04 (Ref:1214133)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

So why did Webber get more credit for trouncing Pizzonia (with 1 year of extra experience) than Nick got for beating Raikkonen (with 1 year of extra experience)? Which aprt of Nick's record against his team-mates doesn't mark him out as an impressive signing? To be hoenst, Webber hasn't proved himself to be anything mroe than moderately good so far - this season should change that.

I think NH is a good driver too - I wasn't even saying that one was good and the other bad... just that I don't see how so many could conclude that Webber is over-rated. Nick beat Kimi, sure - but Pizzonia had vastly more F1 miles, if not more actual racing experience. Also, you have to bear in mind the MARGIN by which Webber has consistently outpaced his team-mates.

In my view, all the Williams driver line-up lacks over the McLaren one is superstar status - Kimi and JPM are clearly in a different class in a PR sense but I don't think there is much to choose on pure driving. Added to which the superstar status is not easy to live with, as Kimi and JPM have illustrated quite nicely - it might be an asset to Williams to have a driver team which is more composed and considered.

Skam85 · 31 Jan 2005, 22:51 (Ref:1214161)

Although inexperienced at the front end of the field, I believe that Webber and Heidfeld has the potential to be as a quick and as Fisi/Alonso. Heidfeld and Fisichella are very similar drivers as well as the way their careers have panned out. Alonso and Webber, also very similar, not as much as the way they drive, Webber this year is where Alonso was in 2003.

Quite a few people had doubts about Alonso and how he would perform at Renault, but he proved them wrong. Alonso was vastly superior in qually versus Marques in his debut season in the Minardi, but Marques was fairly close to Alonso's pace, and brought the car home more often. I remember, even I had doubts about Alonso, and now he is one of my favourite drivers, because he realised the opportunity he had and he did NOT disappoint.

I think Webber will do the same, and as for Heidfeld, well, I'm glad he got the seat, he has deserved it and now it will be great to see how he gets on. Same as Fisi. All in all, top 7 teams, top 14 drivers (aside from DC, I'd still rate him in the top 14). Roll on Melbourne!!

BSchneiderFan · 31 Jan 2005, 23:11 (Ref:1214179)

I wonder if Ron Dennis and Martin Whitmarsh will be watching Heidfeld's performances with a sense of uneasiness?

"We made the right decision, right? Right..?"

Skam85 · 31 Jan 2005, 23:42 (Ref:1214208)

I think they are quite happy with Raikkonen. Until Heidfeld starts beating him!

KE30MAN · 31 Jan 2005, 23:54 (Ref:1214215)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

So why did Webber get more credit for trouncing Pizzonia (with 1 year of extra experience) than Nick got for beating Raikkonen (with 1 year of extra experience)? Which aprt of Nick's record against his team-mates doesn't mark him out as an impressive signing? To be hoenst, Webber hasn't proved himself to be anything mroe than moderately good so far - this season should change that.

I totally agree with you on NH, Boots. NH certainly deserves more props than he has been given.

I still think MW and NH will be surprisingly good combination.

I don't think Ron Dennis and Martin Whitmarsh will feel too badly about their selection. Kimi has done more than a reasonable job for them in recent times.

Rich R · 1 Feb 2005, 01:14 (Ref:1214246)

both drivers seem a good fit for williams to me, understated, commited and willing to work hard, not just on the car but on their own abilities and approach.
and if webber did have a hand in picking his team mate, then well done to him, he could have chose the guy he beat in the same car but williams now have 2 drivers who can move the team forward.

JohnSSC · 1 Feb 2005, 01:39 (Ref:1214252)

Heidfeld has a lot of talent and perhaps something to prove as well. I was impressed with what he did with the EJ # whatever Wobble-wagon last season.

Those assuming a #1 status for MW are making a mistake I think as Sir Frank will probably let these two race each other much as he left Schumi Lite and JPM do so without showing much of a preference to either. Nick may show that he has the better season.

Wrex · 1 Feb 2005, 03:33 (Ref:1214271)

A picture says a thousand words. Seriously, IMO it was pretty obvious from the start. Williams knew Pizzonia's talents, yet they still went looking for someone else. "Wait here mate, if we cant find someone better, we will be back".

Not a big vote of confidence was it.

Onto Nick and Mark. I agree that there is no No.1 at Williams. Frank could'nt care less who comes out in front, as long as Williams are doing well.

These 2 are a great combo, and while they dont have many runs on th board, I feel thats only because neither have had the opportunity.

But come Melbourne, its time to put up or shut up. IMO, these 2 will suprise many, and the battle will wont be a walk over for either of them.

My money is on Mark coming out on top, but I would'nt fall of my chair if it went the other way.

Raglanparade · 1 Feb 2005, 04:27 (Ref:1214283)

My money is on Mark being the better qualifyer, and Heidfeld being the better racer.

Mark is very good over 1 lap, but he has never really had a car which he can push for a full race distance before. Nick has had the reliable ferrari in the back of the Sauber before, and 2 more seasons, so it terms of race experience, Heidfeld is on top by a considerable margin.

Having said that, Mark is probably one of the fittest men on the grid, so physically he can go the distance.. its probably more mental if anything with Mark.

Does anyone know how much grand prixs Nicks completed compared to Mark ?

Skam85 · 1 Feb 2005, 04:37 (Ref:1214285)

Mark has competed in 50 races (2002 Spain he sat out, Minardi didn't start that race, because of rear wing failures), and Nick has 85 races, I believe.

marcus · 1 Feb 2005, 07:20 (Ref:1214310)

I still stand by my signature but I wish Nick well.

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