FIA FLAG RULES

[JABWOA]

The trick is get the board to see that... (despite being a member not a number...)

[Woolley]

Or better still, FIA. Sure, we don't have this problem with domestic events, but it still raises it's head at internationals.

[PVDA]

I note with interest that the proper use of Stationary Blue Flags was approved by the CoC at this weekends Sandown Historics.

[Rachel Richards]

Originally Posted by PVDA

I note with interest that the proper use of Stationary Blue Flags was approved by the CoC at this weekends Sandown Historics.

And I noticed pre-warning yellows too.

Interestingly, a waved at the flagpoint 1/2 way down the main straight (point 0.6 R ???, help me paul) when the waved yellow was out at T1 ?

The flag rules appeared to be going in the opposite direction today ? ? ?

But at a historic meeting, with older drivers who have slower reflexes more pre-warning is far better than the FIA B/S rules.

[PVDA]

Originally Posted by Rachel Richards

Interestingly, a waved at the flagpoint 1/2 way down the main straight (point 0.6 R ???, help me paul) when the waved yellow was out at T1 ?

0.5R but what's .1 between motorsport friends

They seemed to be working a combination of both old & new rules with the now traditional use of the National Flag for race starts.Was a great weekend but I really should post that on the event thread in the Australian section of 10/10ths.

[AndyCox]

Originally Posted by PVDA

Most people who are in RC probably haven't worked trackside for a long time, if ever

I was at Rockingham, post 13 on Saturday so not all Clerks stay in the warm all the time. But then again, I never try telling experienced flaggies what to do either, it shows a complete lack of faith in their experience and abilities.

[Shelagh]

Originally Posted by AndyCox

I was at Rockingham, post 13 on Saturday so not all Clerks stay in the warm all the time.

Have you had a nice lie down to recover from the shock ??

[nomad_n]

What got me... is that I went back to my home track back in NZ and I got told that every flag must be waved - I'll under line the every flag - even the change of surface flag.......

Good old MSNZ going totally different to FIA and every one else...... Does anyone know the link in which I can get the FIA flag rules?

[PVDA]

Originally Posted by nomad_n

every flag must be waved

Originally Posted by nomad_n

even the change of surface flag.......

So how are the drivers going to see the stripes on the flag if it's being waved??

I can see confusion as drivers try to determine if it's a Red, Yellow or Striped flag being waved.

[Oscar114]

Originally Posted by PieMan

Correct - if a yellow is shown before a double waved then it would also be waved.

The FIA flag regs can be viewed at the excellent www.flag-marshal.org.uk

Link to regs earlier in this thread.

[nomad_n]

Originally Posted by PVDA

So how are the drivers going to see the stripes on the flag if it's being waved??

I can see confusion as drivers try to determine if it's a Red, Yellow or Striped flag being waved.

Thats what I questioned and told them its the stupidest rule that MSNZ have either put in place........ But those that run MSNZ don't race or officate so they make up these rules and think that they are great

[mini1400]

Originally Posted by nomad_n

Thats what I questioned and told them its the stupidest rule that MSNZ have either put in place........ But those that run MSNZ don't race or officate so they make up these rules and think that they are great

At the British GP this year we were told to wave the 'change of surface' flag. After Massa stuffed it on oil under a waved flag it was changed on the saturday to be a stationary flag...

[Norbert]

The change of surface flag can be waved so that it still remains a clear signal to the drivers. In fact the Blue Book states that it should be waved when the situation warrants it.

The easiest way of doing this is to hold it in the stationery position then move it in an arc. The movement should be slow enough as not to 'blur' the colours together and the radius of the arc large enough to indicate that marshal moving the flag is not just fighting the wind.

[275 GTB-4]

Originally Posted by Norbert

The change of surface flag can be waved so that it still remains a clear signal to the drivers. In fact the Blue Book states that it should be waved when the situation warrants it.

The easiest way of doing this is to hold it in the stationery position then move it in an arc. The movement should be slow enough as not to 'blur' the colours together and the radius of the arc large enough to indicate that marshal moving the flag is not just fighting the wind.

So....thats the "drowning! not waving!! technique!!! The same can be said for any flag really, if you think the drivers are likely to have trouble seeing you....then..."display" the Flag with maximum visibilty, temporarily, before starting to wave.

I was amused today to hear this exchange from a soggy V8 Supercar round at Symmons Plains, Tasmania:

Driver: Blue Flag! (as he approached a bunch of lapped cars)

Commentator: says words like, well thats a big slow, they waved Blue at the next sector, but should have been waving at the previous sector....

This is crazy stuff, especially with the vagaries of trackside communications, not to mention whether the Flag Point in question was already either dealing with another situiation, reporting a contact etc etc whatever

Sorry to vent...but the people running V8 Supercars need to pull their collective heads in and let the Flaggies get on with their job...

Cromly!! think! before you open your mouth mate....you do a top job! but leave comment on Officialdom to a minimum

[nomad_n]

Originally Posted by 275 GTB-4

So....thats the "drowning! not waving!! technique!!! The same can be said for any flag really, if you think the drivers are likely to have trouble seeing you....then..."display" the Flag with maximum visibilty, temporarily, before starting to wave.

I was amused today to hear this exchange from a soggy V8 Supercar round at Symmons Plains, Tasmania:

Driver: Blue Flag! (as he approached a bunch of lapped cars)

Commentator: says words like, well thats a big slow, they waved Blue at the next sector, but should have been waving at the previous sector....

This is crazy stuff, especially with the vagaries of trackside communications, not to mention whether the Flag Point in question was already either dealing with another situiation, reporting a contact etc etc whatever

Sorry to vent...but the people running V8 Supercars need to pull their collective heads in and let the Flaggies get on with their job...

Cromly!! think! before you open your mouth mate....you do a top job! but leave comment on Officialdom to a minimum

Well I loved about this weekend was when S Richards stopped at the exit of the old pit lane the flag point right oppisite went from waved white to a waved green then a yellow.... and the next flag point didn't even have a green out......

But I totally agree with you Mick about the people in RC to let us do our job the way we are trained... I respect the fact that rules change and we have to change with it but those in charge have to give us the respect that we can do the job....

[PVDA]

Originally Posted by nomad_n

people in RC to let us do our job the way we are trained

I s'pose I should point out that the locals in Race control are probably happy for those trackside to do their job but the imports that chase the series, and also make the rules, are the one's forcing this on us.

[Woolley]

Same as FIA meets, then. Our regulars would leave everyone to it, but FIA directors interfere.

[Aardvaark]

Many moons ago - well mid nineties - I seem to recall at the flag briefing at the British GP we were told that yellows must be waved and that if a yellow was waved, the previous point should also show a waved yellow .... until we pointed out that this would instantly cause a full course yellow! Withdrawal of instruction. I think it was probably the same or a very adjecent British GP when we were told that we had to radio in every time we showed the blue flag for all races - instruction rapidly abandonned roughly 5 laps into the GT race when the airwaves got all gunged up with blue flag reports! So nothnig chnages, "they" just think they know better. Hence why I gave up GP marshalling 7 years ago in favour of real racing.

[Woolley]

I remember that one, and it's about the same time I gave up. I remember thinking that if the people who were telling us how to do the job we do perfectly well all year could come up with such dumb instructions then I didn't want to help them.

I also remember the year we got issued official hats and since many people had their own favourites so they gave out the instruction that marshals were 'only to wear the official hats'. So at the parade one of them did - fortunately not on his head in order to spare blushes.

[nomad_n]

It just makes me wonder if the powers to be realise that we are only volunteers and that we train bloody hard to do the job. Also use our own money to go to these events...

To be told how to do our jobs.... Myabe those in charge should come down in the rain, hail or sunshine and do our job.......

[Woolley]

Yes, they know we're volunteers, that's why they think they know better because they're the professionals.

[Aardvaark]

I remember the blue flag radio when I was on Luffield 2 and being instructed "Luffield 2 X for Y" - but I had just watched "X" pass "Y" at Brooklands - so I didn't bother! Soon after, similar, I saw "Y" (shall we call him) coming up on backmarker "X" through Brooklands, through Luffield 1 - listen to radio - total silence - so I waved the blue at X for obvious reasons - to get the call as they both went through Copse, Y having passed X down the start finish straight, "Luffield 2 X for Y" - at this point I hung my headphones on the fence and just got on with the job.

[Shelagh]

We had something similar during our last GP in 2002. We saw "Montoya" unlap himself against "Ralf" (not sure which way round the drivers were) to then hear the message to "Blue" Montoya 'cos he was now ahead of "a faster car".

Trouble is that they use a computer system which only notes where the cars are in relation to each other on the track so they call for the blue if slower car is ahead of faster car by a couple of seconds or so. They have no way of working out whether or not that is a good call or not - as shown by my example. Computers, eh???? - answer to nothing!

One of the reasons we stopped doing GPs was this "control" over blue flags. Don't get me started on the others..................

[nomad_n]

So just a qurstion if any one can help out.... the A1 - do they operate under who's rules? is it FIA or do they there own.... and if so where can we get a copy..

[Shelagh]

Well, only done one A1GP and that was in NZ so no idea what rules they were following. As mentioned elsewhere, Bill got told off for putting out a waved yellow while Steve was clearing Team Switzerland's front wing off the track. Reason for telling off - no cars on that sector so no need for yellow........

I would also like to know just what experience those in race control have to enable them to make such decisions. Let's put them out on the bank at least once (on chosen posts) with a good supply of loo-roll and then see if it makes any difference ................