F1's at Mount Panorama Bathurst

[louonline]

The chorus here is that Mount Panorama is UNSAFE.
Perhaps someone can point out to me what makes Monte Carlo safer than the Mount.
Just point out to me where all these required run-offs are in this pic.
But, but, I hear you say, but they don't go as fast here as the would on the Mount.

Oh, does that mean they drive to the conditions of the circuit? Well fancy that!

[wnut]

No kangaroos, and have you any idea how fast an F1 car would be going for most of the lap at Mt. Panorama?

By the time you fix that and move the walls, it isn't the same circuit, so its self defeating!


Oh and its NOT Monaco!

[louonline]

Originally Posted by wnut

No kangaroos, and have you any idea how fast an F1 car would be going for most of the lap at Mt. Panorama?

By the time you fix that and move the walls, it isn't the same circuit, so its self defeating!


Oh and its NOT Monaco!

The Kangaroos can be culled but the rest of your post makes no sense to what i have posted.
They dive to the conditions!!!

Read my post again. And look at the pic and notice the walls.

[sizzle]

I reckon you have discovered the general feeling of at least the people on here Lou. The biggest fear most people have is the thought of the changes F1 would inflict. No use showing Monaco as an example because that is where the beautiful people go to be seen, spend millions and also where a lot of F1 business happens.

No real comparison to Bathurst.

Geez a lot of people, me included, are unhappy just with the amount of fencing being put up.

[louonline]

Originally Posted by sizzle

I reckon you have discovered the general feeling of at least the people on here Lou. The biggest fear most people have is the thought of the changes F1 would inflict. No use showing Monaco as an example because that is where the beautiful people go to be seen, spend millions and also where a lot of F1 business happens.

No real comparison to Bathurst.

Geez a lot of people, me included, are unhappy just with the amount of fencing being put up.

Hi sizzle,
yours is the most sensible post here. You are quite right, it one rule for Monaco and one rule for the Mount.
This safety thing is a lot of bull***t, its an excuse not to come here. But hey, there is some beautiful people in Bathurst, they just need to have the ball to take on the Mount and come and have a look.

[gts300]

I used this image when it was announced Jenson was going to do some laps.



I was actually impressed with the way both Jenson and Craig drove the car, fast enough to be impressive, slow enough and set up enough to be relatively safe.

Now, put a field of them into the place, chasing the last millisecond, drifting into the red mist zone.

It has disaster written all over it.

Either disaster for the participants or disaster for the venue.

As a simple demonstration it might have some value, particularly for an anniversary event. But lets not squander scarce funds that could be better directed.

[louonline]

Originally Posted by gts300

I used this image when it was announced Jenson was going to do some laps.



I was actually impressed with the way both Jenson and Craig drove the car, fast enough to be impressive, slow enough and set up enough to be relatively safe.

Now, put a field of them into the place, chasing the last millisecond, drifting into the red mist zone.

It has disaster written all over it.

Either disaster for the participants or disaster for the venue.

As a simple demonstration it might have some value, particularly for an anniversary event. But lets not squander scarce funds that could be better directed.

Good post gts300,

so was I (impressed) that's why I'd like to see it again but with a few more cars and say 10-15 demo laps!

As for squandering money, I'm not advocating that, just enough to make it a bit safer for them. But in the end its up to them "not to drive faster than their angel can fly".... or stop!

[louonline]

Maybe a few of these at strategic places around the track might make them feel safer.

Have a look here...... http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=SgQ04Swfw-E

[sizzle]

Originally Posted by louonline

Maybe a few of these at strategic places around the track might make them feel safer.

Have a look here...... http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=SgQ04Swfw-E

Been there and done that with catch fences and they were more dangerous.

[Malfunction Junction]

When the demo was done up there, it was done in a manageable, fairly modest fashion with a severely undergeared and totally sub-optimal (hey it was a mclaren) aero setup.

Pukka racing laps stand a good chance of an average lap speed exceeding that of spa, with a terminal speed similar to or greater than Monza.

As I've said before, send them to the island, fewer mods, blistering speeds and all it would need is the renovated pit lane it already needs.

It's a bit short, but otherwise ideal.

[Paradise City]

If these guys are just demoing then there's no safety issues other than to perhaps reinforce existing fixtures and fittings. Demos are fine as far as they go and Button going there certainly amused but demos are just not something that inspires me too much. Nor is there much incentive for just 7 teams to go there just to demo.

In terms of racing in Monte Carlo, it's certainly a throwback. But people who want a race at B are really going to have to address their complaints to the FIA on their 'double standards' on why they don't waive their safety standards for anywhere else. I don't expect they'll relent on this point.

[louonline]

Originally Posted by sizzle

Been there and done that with catch fences and they were more dangerous.

Hi sizzle,
I've never seen them before.
Could you give me a rundown on your experience with them please.

[louonline]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

If these guys are just demoing then there's no safety issues other than to perhaps reinforce existing fixtures and fittings. Demos are fine as far as they go and Button going there certainly amused but demos are just not something that inspires me too much. Nor is there much incentive for just 7 teams to go there just to demo.

In terms of racing in Monte Carlo, it's certainly a throwback. But people who want a race at B are really going to have to address their complaints to the FIA on their 'double standards' on why they don't waive their safety standards for anywhere else. I don't expect they'll relent on this point.

Look I'm not a real keen follower of F1's I'd just like to see them at Bathurst for a one-off for the Bicentennial Celebrations. I'm not familiar with all the F1 tracks but I'm pretty sure I have seen them race on some other track where safety features where not a stringent as what they seem to require at the Mount.
Are you familiar with all the F1 tracks/street circuits and their safety aspects?

[louonline]

Originally Posted by Malfunction Junction

When the demo was done up there, it was done in a manageable, fairly modest fashion with a severely undergeared and totally sub-optimal (hey it was a mclaren) aero setup.

Pukka racing laps stand a good chance of an average lap speed exceeding that of spa, with a terminal speed similar to or greater than Monza.

As I've said before, send them to the island, fewer mods, blistering speeds and all it would need is the renovated pit lane it already needs.

It's a bit short, but otherwise ideal.

Mate I don't want to send them to the island, we want a one-off event at the Mount as part of celebrations for Bathurst's Bicentenary.

[Paradise City]

Originally Posted by louonline

Look I'm not a real keen follower of F1's I'd just like to see them at Bathurst for a one-off for the Bicentennial Celebrations. I'm not familiar with all the F1 tracks but I'm pretty sure I have seen them race on some other track where safety features where not a stringent as what they seem to require at the Mount.
Are you familiar with all the F1 tracks/street circuits and their safety aspects?

I see the FIA or Eccelstone reprimanding track after track, wrecking places like Donington - and Eccelstone was actually a friend of Wheatcroft - and otherwise driving well-funded tracks on the edge and over demanding exorbitant sanctioning fees. I don't want that to happen to Bathurst and I don't think it offers much of a benefit to Bathurst even if such obstacles are overcome. Nor do I believe that any grass roots appeal from obscure political figures and well-meaning fans will even figure on the radar of the cold elitist bureaucracy of the FIA with their rules and regulations.

What might be better is to make an appeal to NASCAR for a comeback on the run up to Christmas during their off-season. A big purse, have Ambrose in the field and a couple of V8 guys in guest cars. That would be more achievable and a more racey spectacle in my view.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by louonline

Look I'm not a real keen follower of F1's I'd just like to see them at Bathurst for a one-off for the Bicentennial Celebrations. I'm not familiar with all the F1 tracks but I'm pretty sure I have seen them race on some other track where safety features where not a stringent as what they seem to require at the Mount.
Are you familiar with all the F1 tracks/street circuits and their safety aspects?

Lou,

I think I am starting to understand what you are looking for. I don't follow the history of Bathurst, but if they are going to have a bicentennial event, I can see something like demo laps being possible. But those might be like the prior event in which you might have one (or a few tops) F1 cars doing something like 6/10ths laps on what I assume are demo tires. No racing, no pushing the limits. Basically stuff that would not count at "testing" or "racing" from an F1 perspective. I assume that type of thing is worked more with the individual teams PR departments and likely would not require changes to be made to the track (given the lack of real speed).

If you are looking for some type of actual race (but non-points) that exists outside of the F1 calendar, then that is likely not going to happen at all. If you are looking for an official F1 points race, then assuming it could be put on the calendar you would expect there to be a total rework of the track that would pretty much ruin it's current character. As to the point about how there are tracks on the current schedule that would not fit current regulations (i.e. Monaco), the exception is made for that circuit due to its long standing historic relationship with F1. Fair or not, it is highly unlikely that they would add a new circuit that didn't fit current specification.

Richard

[Armco Bender]

Would an F1 car going flat out jump off the ground going over the hump on Conrod straight?,that would be worth watching.

[ScotsBrutesFan]

Originally Posted by Armco Bender

Would an F1 car going flat out jump off the ground going over the hump on Conrod straight?,that would be worth watching.

I don't claim to be any sort of expert, but it might depend on whether the ride height was set for the mountain or just the straight.

If the former, then I suspect your talking air getting under the flat body giving a back flip scenario, if the later than it might go light but no lift off.

[miatanut]

Originally Posted by louonline

The chorus here is that Mount Panorama is UNSAFE.
Perhaps someone can point out to me what makes Monte Carlo safer than the Mount.
Just point out to me where all these required run-offs are in this pic.
But, but, I hear you say, but they don't go as fast here as the would on the Mount.

Oh, does that mean they drive to the conditions of the circuit? Well fancy that!

I see metal guardrails with space behind them, so they can move and absorb impact. Not concrete walls with earth behind them. Also, as you pointed out, speeds at Monaco are slower.

The truth is, Monaco is a throwback and if somebody proposed a race there today when it had never been done before, it wouldn't happen. Like Nelson Piquet's quote "It's like trying to cycle around your living room."

[Malfunction Junction]

Originally Posted by louonline

Mate I don't want to send them to the island, we want a one-off event at the Mount as part of celebrations for Bathurst's Bicentenary.

I don't know if you're old enough to remember the original context of this quote, but I'll put it out there anyway;

Pull out digger, he dogs are pi55ing on your swag.....

[louonline]

"I see metal guardrails with space behind them, so they can move and absorb impact. Not concrete walls with earth behind them."
------------------------------------------
LOL its funny that you should say that. I don't know if you remember, but before the concrete walls Bathurst had armco until they (FAI?) made them pull it out and replace it with concrete. Go figure!!!

[sizzle]

Originally Posted by louonline

Hi sizzle,
I've never seen them before.
Could you give me a rundown on your experience with them please.

They used them in Europe way back in the late 70s or early 80s, the cars got tangled up in them and the drivers had problems getting out. Technology has gone on a lot further now though.

[Casper]

Now everyone has had their fun, me included, let's look at the hard practicalities of the situation.

It is acknowledged by a lot of people within the sport that the teams are on the edge as far as servicing the existing 20 races and if it goes to 21 the things will be worse. Lou, do you seriously think that multiple teams are going to be up for some sort of multi car demo/race and where are the cars going to come from, certainly not current race cars as the risk would be to great and I don't think apart from the wealthier three teams that any of them have demo cars. Do Ferrari even have a demo car?

Next year is going to be full on as every one comes to grips with the new engines so I doubt that they would be able to squeeze it in even if they had the cars. How are the logistics going to be handled in who is going to organise all this even if the vehicles existed?

As I said earlier this has come of a few beers at a party and someone has decided that it might have legs. No one who is involved in the idea has given any serious thought to what might be involved and I haven't even begun on the track issues that will be raised. Raising the money will be easy compared to trying to get F1 involved in what if everything went belly up could conceivably wreck a racing season and BE would not tolerate any risk of that happening.

If this is the epitome of management thinking within Bathurst council I am glad I don't live there. Another point that may be raised is what the hell has F1 got to do with Mt Panorama at all. Maybe it may occur to someone somewhere that those competitors and the vehicles and bikes that have been part of the history have a long lead on a few kit cars from the other side of the world which have never raced there and are not part of its history. This event should be a Goodwood of Oz showing and demoing local racing history, end of story. Bring out all those vehicles sitting in sheds and museums etc and show those that think racing started with V8 Supercars that in fact it didn't.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Casper

If this is the epitome of management thinking within Bathurst council I am glad I don't live there. Another point that may be raised is what the hell has F1 got to do with Mt Panorama at all. Maybe it may occur to someone somewhere that those competitors and the vehicles and bikes that have been part of the history have a long lead on a few kit cars from the other side of the world which have never raced there and are not part of its history. This event should be a Goodwood of Oz showing and demoing local racing history, end of story. Bring out all those vehicles sitting in sheds and museums etc and show those that think racing started with V8 Supercars that in fact it didn't.

Yup, this is the reality of the idea!

[johnh875]

Can you elaborate on what sort of changes would be made, or what corners would have more run-off? So far there has been a big run-off area added at McPhillamy and a few changes at the Esses.

Much of the 'across the top' section seems to be ok to me on the basis that walls are close enough and close in angle to the racing line that you don't often get a big high-angle hit, with the exception of places like where Murphy crashed just before Reid Park (isn't there a lot of fresh air behind the fence there?) or the latter part of the Esses or the Dipper if you went straight on, which would need rock faces to be excavated. Then there is the issue of actual track width...