[Team] Aston Martin Racing in 2023. One of the cars still has Alonso.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Newey To Aston Martin - Official

Curious how being a shareholder/shareholder payments would count against cap/top three exempt salaries, particularly if the bulk of his remuneration comes through dividends or via the main AM corp, could he not be counted against the team cap or exemption list? could be an interesting trick?

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

Curious how being a shareholder/shareholder payments would count against cap/top three exempt salaries, particularly if the bulk of his remuneration comes through dividends or via the main AM corp, could he not be counted against the team cap or exemption list? could be an interesting trick?

I would imagine that he would be one of those members of any team whose enumeration would be exempt from the cost cap; as I believe he was at Red Bull.

[Mike Harte]

With my cynic's hat firmly on, having tied up Newey for 5 years, this firmly increases the value hugely of Team Aston Martin should any of the owners wish to sell their stake.

[Richard C]

With respect to AM cost cap, I would assume Newey is one of the three on the non-driver exclusion list. Question is... who was (or will be) pushed out to make space for him!

Richard

[FIRE]

Did he become AM, AMR or AM F1 team shareholder?

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by FIRE

Did he become AM, AMR or AM F1 team shareholder?

just read this:

'One interesting element to the press announcement of Newey's capture by Aston Martin was that he was to become a shareholder of the team.'

so presumably that means a shareholder of the F1 team? not exactly clear tho.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/n...roll/10652935/

[Richard C]

My read is that all mentions of him being a shareholder are within the context of the F1 team.

Richard

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Richard C

For example the more recent rules/guidelines that came out of the 2020 "Pink Mercedes" situation. You just can't show up with a picture perfect copy of someone's widget anymore without being able to show how you arrived at that design.

Richard

Besides if you are doing that, that means you don't what know what you are doing anyway and are just blindly copying. Newey's success is based on understanding what's going on with the car.

[Teretonga]

Newey at AMR.

Where does this place AM in the supercar stakes?

Aston Martin has a successful Le Mans history.
Now, if it starts winning F1 titles, even two or three, and partakes in Aston Martin success renewal at Le Mans/WEC, where does that place Aston Martin in the supercar world alongside Ferrari, Mercedes, Ford, Porsche, Lamborghini. BMW and Audi (to name a few).

If Stroll bought an ailing F1 team, an ailing supercar company, married the two identities, hires a great technical leader in Newey who helps create greater success and recognition, what does that do for the Aston Martin share price?

And furthermore, where would it place Aston Martin historically amongst the great automative engineering companies?
Because what is occurring to me is that Stroll has ambitions to create a huge rise in the automative stakes and obviously his willingness to spend at large isn't done without a view towards the recovery of value through the share price.

Stroll made his money in clothing by buying and running a business that hugely inflated the company value and then sold at the top of the market.

What he is doing with AM is something very similar, and as he has said, if the team is successful, then Newey's salary will simply be covered and a very good investment.

Laurence is not a careless investor.
What he is doing is calculated, and if successful, then very rewarding.

[P38 in workshop]

We do know that the share price went up last week,presumably in response to the rumours.History also tells us that Aston Martin have effectively gone through several spells of financial turmoil over the years.So the big business related question has to be what might be different this time?I can't help thinking about the forthcoming bans on the sale of IC engined cars in regions where Aston Martin might hope to sell vehicles and how this might affect the company.I rather fear that we might see the badge applied to vehicles equivalent to the Rolls-Royce Cullinan and that is a long way removed from what they have always been,however business is business.So is selling at the right time.

[greentrumpet]

It would be very nice to see Aston doing well widely. The pity is cutting edge sports cars can't be much fun other than on track. Going back in time and watching the Goodwood revival I've really enjoyed seeing old Jags, Astons, ACs, Healeys etc on track. Those cars feel great at sane speed and (some) were almost affordable. I'm sure Newey could design an almost affordable modern sportscar if he wanted and suspect it'd sell pretty well.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by greentrumpet

It would be very nice to see Aston doing well widely. The pity is cutting edge sports cars can't be much fun other than on track. Going back in time and watching the Goodwood revival I've really enjoyed seeing old Jags, Astons, ACs, Healeys etc on track. Those cars feel great at sane speed and (some) were almost affordable. I'm sure Newey could design an almost affordable modern sportscar if he wanted and suspect it'd sell pretty well.

The problem would be if the likes of Aston Martin could produce an affordable sports car. It has almost become a niche product, and would have to compete with likes of Mazda. And, unfortunately in some respects, cost overheads are far greater in the UK than they are in other parts of the world which means that prices would often be out of the reach of those who would want to buy such a vehicle.

We have a shrinking car manufacturing industry in the UK, and soon it may only be high end cars that will be produced here.

[greentrumpet]

Modern car manufacture is highly automated, Nissan, BMW and Toyota have managed ok although how long that will continue is anyone's guess. The UK is hardly a "high wage" economy and traditionally it's been lack of investment, incompetence and confrontation that's done for our companies.

[Richard C]

I would think that the first and primary hurdle of designing an affordable sport car is on the product side of the house. Meaning... Who is our target audience, what markets, etc. And manufactures still struggle with that aspect before it even becomes to engineering.

Not taking away the work involved on the engineering side, but that would be more straight forward. And production engineers who know how to streamline and lower the cost of production would be key. I would also suspect that someone like Newey, his strength is not on "value for the dollar" types of things, but rather around pushing the envelope on performance. Which is not "affordable sports cars".

I wonder how much (if any) impact Newey will have on the car company other than the "better by association" aspect that comes from the F1 team and potential halo project supercars which really are just marketing exercises anyhow.

Richard

[Mike Harte]

Newey on Verstappen: https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/v...ewey/10653188/

I just wonder whether he might be angling for Verstappen to forget about Mercedes, if that is what he has been doing, and join him at Aston Martin when his contract allows.

(Also posted in the Red Bull thread)

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

Newey on Verstappen: https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/v...ewey/10653188/

I just wonder whether he might be angling for Verstappen to forget about Mercedes, if that is what he has been doing, and join him at Aston Martin when his contract allows.

(Also posted in the Red Bull thread)

I think the idea that Max would go anywhere other than Aston Martin/Stroll Racing is outrageous.

In his F1 experience Honda, Dan Fallows, Newey all figure prominently.
I think after Red Bull, Aston Martin would be his first point of call, before anywhere else.

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

The problem would be if the likes of Aston Martin could produce an affordable sports car. It has almost become a niche product, and would have to compete with likes of Mazda. And, unfortunately in some respects, cost overheads are far greater in the UK than they are in other parts of the world which means that prices would often be out of the reach of those who would want to buy such a vehicle.

We have a shrinking car manufacturing industry in the UK, and soon it may only be high end cars that will be produced here.

What would happen if AM was able to design via Newey, an ultimate sport hatch or suburban performance car to a middle market, under their name but in a factory in Asia?

Or even more outrageously, Newey design one that was actually manufactured in one of Honda's factories but powered by Honda and sold either as an Aston Martin but actually sold or serviced in Honda dealerships.

To keep with the high end name, it would be a 'luxury sporting sedan' but at the top end of the Honda performance range.
It really depends on what Aston Martin does, remain as a niche end sports /supercar brand or widens its general market range.

It also depends on how the relationship between Aston Martin and Honda develops. Or does Newey design the next Honda NSX which is also marketed by Aston Martin.....

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

What would happen if AM was able to design via Newey, an ultimate sport hatch or suburban performance car to a middle market, under their name but in a factory in Asia?

I have the utmost respect for Newey when it comes to his design skills in F1 specifically and probably motorsports in general. But seriously, why would those skills translate to being at the top of the field when creating an entry or middle market product? Could AM put his name on something "Newey Edition" or even a marketing exercise "Designed by Newey" in which he comes in and draws some swoops on some paper and "designs the car". Absolutely. Are you talking about a marketing effort such as that or him actually somehow pushing aside experienced production design engineers and designing new mass production automobiles? The man has his limits!

Richard

[Peter Mallett]

This is waaaay off topic but two years ago a Jaguar E Type wiped the floor with all the Cobras and TVRs etc. at Goodwood. It was so fast they had to stop it before race end. The car belonged to Adrian and he "engineered" it. I'm not going into the legality of it, that's another story, but it does suggest that given the time he would be able make a "normal" road car and it would sell.

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by Richard C

I have the utmost respect for Newey when it comes to his design skills in F1 specifically and probably motorsports in general. But seriously, why would those skills translate to being at the top of the field when creating an entry or middle market product? Could AM put his name on something "Newey Edition" or even a marketing exercise "Designed by Newey" in which he comes in and draws some swoops on some paper and "designs the car". Absolutely. Are you talking about a marketing effort such as that or him actually somehow pushing aside experienced production design engineers and designing new mass production automobiles? The man has his limits!

Richard

Newey has limits? Really?

Have you told him that yet?

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

Have you told him that yet?

No doubt he is very confident in his abilities, and even his ability to stretch and work outside of his comfort zone, but I suspect he knows he has limits. And I say that as a complement to him. The bad ones are those who have such a large ego that they don't know they have limits.

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

This is waaaay off topic but two years ago a Jaguar E Type wiped the floor with all the Cobras and TVRs etc. at Goodwood. It was so fast they had to stop it before race end. The car belonged to Adrian and he "engineered" it. I'm not going into the legality of it, that's another story, but it does suggest that given the time he would be able make a "normal" road car and it would sell.

That sounds right inline with what I would expect his strengths to be. He is taking an existing car and working out what he can do to push the envelope with respect to whatever regulations those cars were running against. However that is not automobile engineering. That is (this is really not the right label but I can't think of a better one at the moment) "race engineering". The type of work that any number of race teams do on a regular basis. Particularly those that are starting with a baseline car.

I will try to make this my last post, as it's a relatively minor point in the grand scheme of the "Newey" topic. But automotive engineering (like most any production engineering) is multi-disciplinary (vehicle dynamics, NVH, Assembly/maintenance viability, Safety, etc.) Which means you are going to have a host of specialized engineers who are experienced in their respective areas. The question would be... what would Newey bring to that group? Particularly if we are going to label a car as a "Newey car" in which he would be lead engineer and his engineering input would be the predominate factor in the final outcome. For a high performance "halo" car that is pushing technical envelopes in specific areas, he (or similar F1 designers) would bring extraordinary value. Examples of this are cars such as the RB Valkyrie in which Newey was part of and other such as Gordan Murray's cars. These cars pushed the envelope in areas that were dear to their designers. Active aero, etc.

But "affordable" performance cars is a totally different beast. They are not about finding ultimate performance, but are more of a financial exercise such as cost effectiveness in design and manufacturing. Newey would not bring much if anything to that equation outside of marketing potentials. And as a marketing exercise, it would be more about his name vs. his input on the car. No doubt he "could" do it. But others could do a better job at it (cheaper and faster for the same outcome). Again, I am extracting out the marketing aspect. If you want him involved just to put his name on a car, then call it what it is... it's marketing, not engineering.

At least... that is my opinion. I think my point is made, everyone may not agree with me. No need for me to continue to push the same point. And again, none of this is a knock on Newey. I think he is an F1 design legend, but his skills have boundaries.



Richard

[Richard C]

Sorry... one last post. I thought of an example of design (and in this video calibration of solution) that are targeting commercial market solution vs. "race design" and how each discipline will value different thing and require different skills/experience of commercial (general purpose including wide operating range) vs. race (focused on a singular target and narrower conditions) design.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucnAz1yQ8tM

The video is about motorcycles, but the point still applies. Note... I don't ride bikes, but I love this channel due to the quality of it's content.

Richard

[Plantagenet]

Newey's autobiography is really good - although I suspect most on here would have read it. What came through to me, however, is like most geniuses, he would be quite difficult to manage. His early career, whilst very successful, was marked by falling out with team bosses within 3-4 years. As an aside, I think Horner takes huge credit in keeping him happy for nearly 2 decades at RB. The key will be for AM will be to try and replicate the conditions at RB - I suspect a degree of hegemony will help this.
It's great for F1 and could potentially see 4 really competitive teams.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by greentrumpet

Those cars feel great at sane speed and (some) were almost affordable. I'm sure Newey could design an almost affordable modern sportscar if he wanted and suspect it'd sell pretty well.

By almost affordable you mean something in the Jaguar F-Type or Lotus Emira price category?

It's a possibility, although if the 1995 DB5 was a spruced up Jaguar XJS and priced above the XJS/XKR accordingly, I think Aston Martin still have the intention to price their vehicles as a (silk) cut above Jaguars.

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

The problem would be if the likes of Aston Martin could produce an affordable sports car. It has almost become a niche product, and would have to compete with likes of Mazda.

You seem to have misunderstood, I don't think there was any suggestion of Aston Martin intending to compete with the Mazda MX-5, FIAT 124 Abarth or Toyota GR86, or even with the Toyota Supra, Nissan Z, BMW M2 or long rumoured Mazda RX-7 revival.

That would undermine the whole business model of Aston Martin as a luxury, high margin brand. [Aston Martin Cygnet aside!]

[Teretonga]

This video is a very interesting, fascinating discussion, meeting with Newey (since Tuesdays announcement).

It tells me a lot about Newey, how he operates and thinks about work and life.
90 min long.

https://tentenths.com/forum/showthre...154930&page=30