[Team] Aston Martin Racing in 2023. One of the cars still has Alonso.

[Moneyseeker]

McLaren to drop their involvement in the appeal, Williams to make a decision tomorrow - not many guesses what that will be.....


Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk

[Moneyseeker]

Meanwhile, Ferrar always one to hold the moral high ground confirm they will press ahead with the appeal on the FIA RP penalty.

You could not make it up!

Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk

[uesugi kenshin]

What is both Merc and Stroll get so ****ed off with all this they pull their teams from next season?

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by uesugi kenshin

What is both Merc and Stroll get so ****ed off with all this they pull their teams from next season?

Mercedes and Racing Point just not yet ready to sign the new Concorde Agreement.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/r...-work/4854239/

I expect they had issues before the FIA decision, but they can use their lack of signing as bargaining power in this current mess. You might point out that the rule issues is with the FIA while the agreement is with Liberty. But you know there is not a hard line between the two. They are partners in this entire "F1" thing.

Richard

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Moneyseeker

McLaren to drop their involvement in the appeal, Williams to make a decision tomorrow - not many guesses what that will be.....


Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk

Williams looking to extract a favor from Mercedes? McLaren maybe already received one? I know they both get engines from Mercedes and Mercedes may be twisting their arms. Given that McLaren is on the upswing, they have more to lose with a bad relationship with Mercedes. Williams however, maybe feel they have cards to play?

Richard

[Moneyseeker]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

Williams looking to extract a favor from Mercedes? McLaren maybe already received one? I know they both get engines from Mercedes and Mercedes may be twisting their arms. Given that McLaren is on the upswing, they have more to lose with a bad relationship with Mercedes. Williams however, maybe feel they have cards to play?



Richard

Or Toto saying to Claire, don't make my life more difficult than it need be, allegedly.

Who do we think is paying for George's seat..?



Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by P38 in workshop

If my memory is correct, the stewards at the event are acting on behalf of the National sporting authority and the appeal goes to the FIA when contested.

Not correct for an FIA World Championship. The stewards are FIA Stewards, appointed by the FIA and acting as the FIA with ultimate authority at the race meeting.

Your memory would be correct if it was a national level race meeting for example.

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by Moneyseeker

Or Toto saying to Claire, don't make my life more difficult than it need be, allegedly.

Who do we think is paying for George's seat..?



Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk

I expect Williams to withdraw their protest.

Let’s be honest, they can neither afford the time, money or resources to be taken up protesting something they won’t gain anything from.

[wolfhound]

McLaren have withdrawn their protest but Renault and Ferrari are to go ahead with theirs. I suspect RP will also go ahead but no news on Williams.


https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/15...ke-duct-appeal

[GT6]

Oh well if you can't win on the track then let your legal team have a go.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Not correct for an FIA World Championship. The stewards are FIA Stewards, appointed by the FIA and acting as the FIA with ultimate authority at the race meeting.

Your memory would be correct if it was a national level race meeting for example.

I could be wrong or things have changed and different now, but i also thought that in addition to the permanent stewards there are also a couple of stewards nationality appointed perhaps even with one having to be a national of the country hosting the race.

Either way though...the vagueness of the ruling suggests to me that the ones at the race, regardless ofwho appointed them, where more then willing to pass the decision up to mom and dad to sort out.

[Adam43]

On the meeting stewards, whether FIA or not, they were judging the physical legality the car, or part of it. The brake ducts are technically legal. It is the sourcing of them that is the problem. As they aren’t charged with checking this on a race weekend, indeed it would be impractical, it is clear why they found no problem with them. It strikes me that challenging this after a race is the only reasonable way to do it.

I don’t see how any of this suddenly requires the FIA to release the details around the Ferrari ruling last year. Why would anything else be revisited?

None of the above is a comment on whether RP did anything wrong, or did everything right. Just a desire to understand the situation better.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

I could be wrong or things have changed and different now, but i also thought that in addition to the permanent stewards there are also a couple of stewards nationality appointed perhaps even with one having to be a national of the country hosting the race.

Either way though...the vagueness of the ruling suggests to me that the ones at the race, regardless ofwho appointed them, where more then willing to pass the decision up to mom and dad to sort out.

The stewards of the meeting have neither the skills or resources to adjudicate a technical decision of this nature, they are not full time and are not qualified, which is why the decision was held over from Hungary.
The FIA made a ruling and handed it down for publication.

Essentially mom and dad made the decision and one of the kids taped it up on the wall.

[Adam43]

McLaren aren’t appealing anymore. https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/15...ke-duct-appeal

This needs a full investigation...

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Adam43

McLaren aren’t appealing anymore. https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/15...ke-duct-appeal

This needs a full investigation...

Toto explained that their engine bill would include all the legal fees necessary to clear RP from their action, and to compensate RP for all the lost revenue from lost WCC points.
No point in now in McLaren pursuing the action.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

I could be wrong or things have changed and different now, but i also thought that in addition to the permanent stewards there are also a couple of stewards nationality appointed perhaps even with one having to be a national of the country hosting the race.

Either way though...the vagueness of the ruling suggests to me that the ones at the race, regardless ofwho appointed them, where more then willing to pass the decision up to mom and dad to sort out.

You're right, normally a local added to the permanent pair but they're all FIA Stewards as a group, appointed by and representing the FIA.

The decision does seem quite vague and contradictory in many ways - not unusual for stewards to sit on the fence in matters of higher complexity or bigger stakes and it sounds like that may be what has happened here.

[E.B]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

Williams looking to extract a favor from Mercedes? McLaren maybe already received one? I know they both get engines from Mercedes and Mercedes may be twisting their arms. Given that McLaren is on the upswing, they have more to lose with a bad relationship with Mercedes. Williams however, maybe feel they have cards to play?

Richard

To be pedantic McLaren this year are using Renault power, but yes McLaren will switch to Merc next year and so are in the 'favour loop'.

[Moneyseeker]

Originally Posted by Adam43

I don’t see how any of this suddenly requires the FIA to release the details around the Ferrari ruling last year. Why would anything else be revisited?

Because as the ultimate regulator, the FIA has a duty to treat everyone equally. You cannot treat one alleged breach as a confidential matter with no apparent penalty and have another played out in public with a visible penalty. Cosy confidential 'settlements' simply undermine the whole regulatory process.

If I were Lawrence Stroll, I would want to know why Ferrari were treated confidentially and I am sure their legal team would use this to discredit the way the FIA regulates.

[Moneyseeker]

Originally Posted by E.B

To be pedantic McLaren this year are using Renault power, but yes McLaren will switch to Merc next year and so are in the 'favour loop'.

I think Williams will do the same - despite all her enthusiasm for F1's DNA, she won't want to be out on a Mercedes limb, surely.

[Moneyseeker]

I suppose the irony of those left protesting is that RP on a relative shoestring, have done a better job producing a 'similar concept' to the 2019 Mercedes, than Ferrari and Renault have with their 2020 cars and substantial budgets.

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

Williams looking to extract a favor from Mercedes? McLaren maybe already received one? I know they both get engines from Mercedes and Mercedes may be twisting their arms. Given that McLaren is on the upswing, they have more to lose with a bad relationship with Mercedes. Williams however, maybe feel they have cards to play?

Richard

Maybe Williams are asking for the drawings of last years Racing Point car?

[wnut]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

Maybe Williams are asking for the drawings of last years Racing Point car?

Perhaps Toto will buy them a digital camera.

[S griffin]

F1 was doing so well, getting the season underway in not the easiest of circumstances and making sure everything runs smoothly as possible. We have had some great racing to keep us entertained, which is just what we needed after so long without it

Then this happens and turns into a complete farce, which does F1 and it's participants no credibility. I really feel the FIA need to make sure this whole saga dies down so that this season can be remembered for the racing and how it handled a difficult situation in the world and not about RP's brake ducts

[P38 in workshop]

Originally Posted by Moneyseeker

I suppose the irony of those left protesting is that RP on a relative shoestring, have done a better job producing a 'similar concept' to the 2019 Mercedes, than Ferrari and Renault have with their 2020 cars and substantial budgets.

The only time that Ferrari have really benefited from their huge budget was the era when unlimited testing was rampant.They threw so many parts at their car and did such huge mileage that some of it actually worked,even if they may have been mystified as to why.Had they understood what was going on they might have been better placed to work out how to build a competitive car without all the testing and they were running over 350 days of the year.


The question of why nobody else used their photographs of the 2019 Mercedes to better effect is one that will probably be asked in the boardrooms of several sponsors and parent companies.I really wish the excuses offered would be made public.

[wolfhound]

Williams will not appeal RP case so that leaves Renault and Ferrari as the only teams against RP so I guess we won't known the final results for this year until after we have a Covid 19 vaccine.


https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/15...n-racing-point