Brock Yates and "manly cars driven by manly men"

[Franklin]

Hey Brock,

The only thing you're forgeting in your comments below is THIS IS THE YEAR 2000, not 1965. Seven or eight hundred horsepower is not that big a deal anymore. With today's aerodynamics and tires, if you want to see at Indy "manly cars driven by manly men" they're going to need more like 1,500 or 2,000 horsepower.


Sincerely, Franklin Ratliff


"Call me a Neanderthal, but once we learned how to manage air, we ended the titanic age of motorsports. Now wings, splitters, tunnels and trim tabs mean more than driving skill, and the speeds are seemingly unlimited, based only on how many or how few aerodynamics fillips are permitted. There is a nascent move in NASCAR to "dirty" up the cars to encourage the lost art of sling-shot drafting and actual passing. A similar policy might be considered by Tony George and his ilk if a return to glory for the Indy 500 is even desired (which may be doubtful). With the driver protection we currently have available, I reckon an Indy car, packing
800hp but not a shred of aerodynamics, a la the ‘60s, might lap the Speedway at about 170mph – based on the skill and cojones of the driver. Yes, the ****ers would bang the wall and the scene could get ugly, but it would again become the battleground of giants, where only the best of the best could claim victory in the world’s most legendary, most dangerous and most challenging motor race. Only then would being "Back Home in Indiana" on Memorial Day weekend begin to mean anything."

[Liz]

(1) Who is Brock Yates?

(2) How old is Brock Yates?

(3) Has anyone introduced Brock Yates to Sarah Fisher?

I don't like seeing women in open wheel racing's pro ranks either, but hey, if she qualifies under the rules, and she can handle that car, she's in. And a "manly man" who's afraid to race with women is probably afraid he's not that manly, after all ...

Otherwise I can't make out what the above may be about. If that's not what you meant, Franklin, I apologize. :confused:

[boltz]

Brock Yates is a writer/once racer. If you have time (or make time) for lesiure reading, see if you can buy, borrow or steal a copy of his book "Sunday Driver" It details some of his early Trans Am experiences. He also was involved with the old Cannonball Sea-to Shining-Sea Memorial Trophy Dashes. They really happened. Just not like the dopey movies. He works with Speed Vision now and Car and Driver. He is a little crusty but read the book anyway. As a race fan, you will probably enjoy it.

[Liz]

OK - I like reading racing books. Is he an old guy? I take it he has nothing to do with open wheel racing, which makes me wonder why Franklin posted him here ...

[boltz]

He has been with Car and Driver since the sixtys. Old? Maybe. I don't remember if he has any open wheel experience or not.

You may have to look pretty hard for the book, but let me assure you it is worth the effort. My copy is gone now but I keep an eye out for it at used book stores. I think you could get it online from dealers.

It gives you a taste of racing when it was a little more pure.

[Hyacinth]

Yates spends a lot of time trying to live up to his reputation as a professional curmudgeon. I think he gets depressed if he doesn't p*ss off at least half his readers with every column. Has to be in his '60s. He also wrote an interesting biography of Enzo Ferrari that should still be available through Amazon or Barnes & Noble.

[Jared]

I am inclined to agree with Mr. Yates. These cars have so much downforce through their various aerodynamic bits, that, as Brock said: "The most talentless w@nker can go 210mph just by pressing his foot to the firewall." Just look at the accidents at Indy this past week.

Franklin, he said that 800 hp with no aerodynamics would be a challenge. And yes, I believe it would be an immense challenge. He wasn't talking about 1400 hp with wings and all, but 800 hp with no wings. Cars with tons of HP but no downforce.

He's right in another area, that the speed of the cars is limited only by the number of aero bits allowed in the rules.

His second point is that, back in the 1960's, the Indy 500 was a collection of the most talented racers in the world: F1 drivers, sports car drivers, NASCAR drivers, and the USAC drivers. Now, that collection of talent has been replaced with IRL "no-names."

He's basically longing for the Indy 500 to return to when the best drivers in the world fought it out in cars that placed a premium on driver skill.

[Jared]

And I think Franklin got the title of the thread wrong. I don't remember gender ever coming up as an issue in Brock's article.

One of the funniest comments at Indy was from Lyn St. James after qualifying: "This is not a male-dominated sport." Okay Lyn, that's why there are only two women in a field of 33.

Don't regard that last statement of mine as me wanting to bar women from auto racing. I say bring 'em on. If they have the talent and the drive, they should be there. I'm surprised that the radical feminazis, like N.O.W., don't sponsor a car for a female driver.

[Dave S]

My question is do we really want to revisit the carnage of the 60's? We've all experienced far too many death's & serious injuries in the last year, do we really, any of us, want to make racing even MORE dangerous than it already is? That's what I took the quote as being about. As far as women racers, I think it's great that we have 2 women drivers in the 500, & would welcome the day when they're just considered DRIVERS, which they both are. Did anyone else hear & cring when during the Qualifying coverage Arie started to mention the historic possibility of having 2 women in the field only to have Tom 'fetch me a beer' Sneva ruin the whole thing by finishing the statement with "having 2 GALS' in the race? I was hoping Arie would dope slap the fool!

[Franklin]

The carnage of the sixties (and early seventies) was largely due to the Indy cars being constructed as ****box deathtraps.

It is also worth noting that if a current Winston Cup car were sent back in time 31 years it would turn quick enough laps to get the pole at the 1969 Indy 500.

[Crash Test]

So what? If i take my road car back in time to 1911 Indy i would have won easily. Plus my car would have had 3 rear vision mirrors, and a cassette player....

[Jared]

I seriously doubt that with today's standards of safety and driver protection, that taking the wings off the cars would revisit the "carnage" of the 1960's. The lack of aero downforce would force the drivers to slow down and actually drive the cars. Hitting a wall at 170 mph is not going to be the same as hitting it at 220 mph. (You understand what I mean.)

Very true point, Franklin. Those 1960's cars were basically flying fuel tanks, with gas tanks all around the driver, and they didn't have the safety of carbon fiber racers of today enjoy.