controversy aside, a great drive by MS and a well deserved victory!

[laxman]

There have been so many points raised against MS on various threads that i felt the best way to answer all of them would be this way.

First of all i would like to congradulate MS on a stupendous drive and a fully deserved victory.I must admit that before the race even i felt it would be difficult for him to beat ralf in the williams.BTW did anyone notice teh fuel economy of the ferrari? Im quite sure it matched that of teh williams(or was very close), when in the last race they were miles behind.

Anyways, coming to all the stupid conspiracy theories by the anti-schumacher members of this forum, do you really have a point against MS?
As far as im concerned he beat ralf fair and square.Ralf couldnt overtake him on track and MS beat him good,rather,ferrari beat williams,during the pit stop.As for his late move, he had to do it.he had to make sure that the williams team was not selling the dummy to them.Didnt you guys notice them bringing out the pit crew when ralf caught up with michael? If anything, it was some brilliant thinking by MS to have delayed entering the pits.If ralf wanted to continue for another lap,he woud still find MS in front of him.
..and im sorry, but there is no rule against it.So MS was driving well, not cheating.


as for the ralf incident,first of all it dosent involve MS.He would have won anyway.The question really is whether ralf deserved second or forth.Now as far as im concerned,according to the theories posted by soem on this forum, this means that JPM and DC are cheaters.This is absolutely ridiculous.Yes, MS too touched the line,but he didnt cross it.He actually touched only the inner half of the line.BTW i too think the decision on ralf was harsh.But the officials have to draw a line somewhere and its within their rights to draw it where they like(Im not very sure of the fia ruling here but if anybody knows,they know).


SO i suggest everyone to sit backa nd take a deep breath.If you are a ferrari fan,its party time.If you are not, you have a race coming up in less thana week, hope your guy does well there and stop all the controversy ****.Its really getting sickenning.

[neutral]

Well said.

[laxman]

I wanted to make this thread an answer to all the anti-schumacher talk.
so here's some more of it that i missed the first time.

First of all, michael's start was well within the rules.There is a rule specifically for it and he used it.There is something called track position and if it werent for such agressive racing, f1 racing would be as dull as watching a turtle taking a bath.
And all the talk about him being ready to cause harm to his brother to win races is bull****.Any one who has made such a post could use a one month stay in a mental asylum.

what i also heard was the clarification of rules regarding the entry of the pit lane.Here, i dont think there is any rule,even if there is,it is taken lightly because you enter the pits at race speed before the pit speed line.This is not as dangerous as exiting slowly in front of a faster car.Look at the track where JPM pulled the overtaking move on MS(i forgot the tracks name.....oh dumb me).All the cars crossed the white line for the pit entry twice.They would enter the corner wide,treat the barrier within the pit lane as the apex and sling shot into the straight crossing the white line again.So i really dont think there is a ruling against that.


And before anyone starts blasting me, i too believe ralf was dealt with harshly as i said before.What i want to say is that there is no point saying that the fia favoured ferrari and pulverised williams.

[Wrex]

Originally posted by laxman
what i also heard was the clarification of rules regarding the entry of the pit lane.Here, i dont think there is any rule,even if there is,it is taken lightly because you enter the pits at race speed before the pit speed line.

This is the most ridiculous statement I have read here in a long time. So Laxman, which rules are serious and which ones can be "taken lightly". As a TGF supporter, I have one request. Stop Helping!!

[EERO]

Laxman, I have no doubt that MS drove a brilliant race and probably would have won even if Ralf had not been penalized. However, a rule was enforced to Ralf's detriment that SHOULD HAVE BEEN APPLIED TO HIS BROTHER AS WELL. I don't honestly believe that there is a conspiracy behind this, but TGF does seem to catch more than his share of luck.

As for whether the rule exists about pit entry, read eatapc's post again; it exists and TGF broke it.

[neutral]

EERO Please look at the replay again!!! Michael does not cross the line!!! so why should he have been penalised ???

[bghaw]

NEUTRAL?? WHAT CRACK ARE YOU SMOKING? the first time TGF entered the pits, he was well beyond the pit entry, trying to fake out his brother. He did so DELIBERATELY!!!! He then DANGEROUSLY swerved into the pit entrance, clearly breaking the rules as EERO has stated. Check your eyes before you reply! Hey - that rhymes

[Gt_R]

Hey...perhaps you look at it this way.

Williams had tried confusing the Ferrari team by falsely bringing out the pit crews for nothing (a tactic used by Ferrari before). Thus, Ferrari do not know what strategy the Williams is on. Bearing in mind that Michael could not come in BEFORE the williams as it would then be clear for it to set quick laps and pass Schuey after their pit, Michael could not risk going in later also. The only option Ferrari has to counter Williams is to bring out their pit crew at the same time as Williams and the cars in at the same time, bearing in mind the Ferrari pit crew is faster. At the lap when both cars pit, MS is worried that Williams is trying to trick them into the pit first. Thus, he waited till the last possible moment, stick to the racing line until he see Ralf jinx into the pit entry FIRST before he pulls in.

As for whether Ferrari broke the rule of cutting accross the line. If williams believe that it calls for a penalty, they can bring it up with the FIA. Stop the bull**** about conspiracy...if there is concrete evidence coupled with strong arguments which the Ferrari lawyers couldnt bring a doubt to, there is NO WAY the FIA can cover it up in the court of Appeal.

[laxman]

This is the most ridiculous statement I have read here in a long time. So Laxman, which rules are serious and which ones can be "taken lightly". As a TGF supporter, I have one request. Stop Helping!!

Well wrex..did you actually know that there is actually a rule saying that the pit crew should come out only on the lap the driver is coming in for his stop.This means that the williams crew should be penalised for trying the dummy when ralf caught up with MS. im not saying ferrari dosent do it, cause they do it too(which BTW is againstthe rule).Ive also quoted the track on which every driver breakes your so called rule! Im sorry that you dont like it, but thats the way it is!

BTW being a MS supporter or not is not the point.Being a MS fan dosent mean you have to support everything he does.Its upto you to decide what is right and what is wrong.What i have said is my feel on the topic.


I hope i find a few mpegs of all the drivers crossing the pit lane entry line in that grand prix.

[EERO]

Originally posted by neutral
EERO Please look at the replay again!!! Michael does not cross the line!!! so why should he have been penalised ???

Neutral, I've watched it several times, MS was over the line as well, albeit closer to the end of the line.

[Don K]

Originally posted by bghaw
NEUTRAL?? WHAT CRACK ARE YOU SMOKING? the first time TGF entered the pits, ... Check your eyes before you reply!

Neutral and Eero were discussing the moment TGF exited the pits. Check your eyes before you reply!

[bghaw]

DON K: either way, MS crossed the line in both the pit entrance and exit. so that should have been TWO penalties.

[Don K]

Originally posted by bghaw
DON K: either way, MS crossed the line in both the pit entrance and exit. so that should have been TWO penalties.

On the entrance part, there's a discussion going on in this thread whether or not drivers are to be punished for breaking this rule (which apparently is being broken all the time).
On the exit part, there's a discussion going on in this thread (and other threads as well) whether or not Michael crossed the line and/or whether or not touching the line without crossing it is an infringment of the rules.

[neutral]

Check your eyes before you reply! Hey - that rhymes

Congratulations, you should be a poet.

James Allen answered the question during the race. The stewards had warned the drivers at the drivers meeting that crossing the line at the exit would be deemed dangerous, and would result in a penalty. In any other race this would have been ignored, since there is ample distance from the pit exit to the first turn. Ralf clearly did not obey the warning, and for that he paid the penalty, as harsh as it may have seemed.

Eero, I now understand why we share a different opinion. Our definitions of crossing are clearly different. I too agree that Michael was on the line, and this you are regarding as crossing. However, I beleive a line is only crossed once you have come off it. If you're standing on a bridge, have you crossed it?

By the way Eero, if you thought Ralf was hard done by, or Michael was let off, Do you not think Patrick, Brundle, or anyone else in the pitlane would have raised questions? The post race interviews gave the impression that Patrick accepted the ruling as fair. Or do you beleive Patrick is involved in this Schumi/FIA conspiracy aswell?

[Porsche_1]

I could not have put it in better words myself neutral!!

If it was so unfair then why aren’t all the other teams in pit lane making a fuss!!

[botsquad]

Originally posted by neutral
The post race interviews gave the impression that Patrick accepted the ruling as fair. Or do you beleive Patrick is involved in this Schumi/FIA conspiracy aswell?

there is no arguing a call like that...
the stewards missed the call on tgf...a goof is a goof
that did not excuse ralf...

[EERO]

Originally posted by neutral


Eero, I now understand why we share a different opinion. Our definitions of crossing are clearly different. I too agree that Michael was on the line, and this you are regarding as crossing. However, I beleive a line is only crossed once you have come off it. If you're standing on a bridge, have you crossed it?

By the way Eero, if you thought Ralf was hard done by, or Michael was let off, Do you not think Patrick, Brundle, or anyone else in the pitlane would have raised questions? The post race interviews gave the impression that Patrick accepted the ruling as fair. Or do you beleive Patrick is involved in this Schumi/FIA conspiracy aswell?

Neutral, what I have seen is MS CROSSING the line near its terminus with two wheels.

With regard to to post-race analysis, I don't get the ITV crew, however Speedvision's commentators were were pretty horrified by the fact that MS was NOT called on the infraction. And made much of it.

[laxman]

eero,
I have also seen the video of MS exiting the pits.If you consider that crossing, please watch JPM exiting after his first stop.He went exactly where michael went, if only a little bit further.Almost all the drivers did that because you had a corner turning right in front and they wanted a wide line into it.So if MS had to be punished, so would all the other drivers.Moreover, if the officials had actually briefed teh drivers upon this, i dont consider the decision on ralf that unfair, and that is probably why the williams team is not making so much of a fuss about it.I know even ralf was only about a meter further, but the officials have to draw a line somewhere.According to me all the drivers were violating it marginally.Ralf went a little bit further and was penalised.

BTW i still havent found any mpegs.unfortunately its a part of teh circuit just before the main straight and teh all the videos i got were already past it.I am however still trying and if anyone here can find something, please post it.Its the brazilian grand prix at interlagos.

[drexel]

As for the conspiracy of Ralf being called for it. Maybe we should look to Mclaren. It was DC who had most to gain by Ralf being penalised, NOT MICHAEL! DC after the race tried to instigate rumours of a bust up between the brothers. Obviously he is hoping that they will take each other out a couple times this year allowing him the win.

[Airhead]

Originally posted by drexel
Obviously he is hoping that they will take each other out a couple times this year allowing him the win.

Well, he's not alone there!

[Gt_R]

Well..let me see..

Ralf was penalised for crossing the line...

Some say Michael should have been penalised for driving on the line...

Laxman pointed out that JPM did what Michael did...

so if both Michael and JPM were also penalised...would it change in anyway the team standings at the final result?

No...

[downforce]